America on Fire

nd_eric_77

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Yep. Many Indonesians have a specific criteria of beauty and Papuans and black skin are not part of it. You can do a survey asking Indonesians if Naomi Campbell is beautiful? I can surmise that many will say not.
To be fair, Naomi Campbell is bit of a dated reference. Beyonce might have a more positive response.
 

Helpful Herbert

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If we're just talking about looks there is really no comparison between Naomi Campbell and Beyonce, they are in completely different leagues. I'm struggling to think of a black model or actress these days who could compare to Naomi, I'm sure there are some but they don't have the profile for the general public to have heard of them. I would definitely put Naomi Campbell in the top 10 best looking women of the 20th century. I saw her once walking through Heathrow and she looked like someone from another planet.
 

nd_eric_77

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If we're just talking about looks there is really no comparison between Naomi Campbell and Beyonce, they are in completely different leagues. I'm struggling to think of a black model or actress these days who could compare to Naomi, I'm sure there are some but they don't have the profile for the general public to have heard of them. I would definitely put Naomi Campbell in the top 10 best looking women of the 20th century. I saw her once walking through Heathrow and she looked like someone from another planet.
20th century... We are old men... The average age of Indonesian males is under 30 years old; most were either little kids or not even born in the 20th century. You do make a good point, though. The East and Southeast Asian standard of beauty strongly favors a lighter complexion. I wonder how many K-Pop fans brigading in support of the BLM movement would actually date a black person.
 

Bad_azz

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I am waiting for white self-humiliating keyboard warriors to start first ;)

I see that they have a high moral standing ground for situation 10,000 miles away, but anyway they live in a racist country without complaining-maybe because they enjoy living in one of the last countries in the world where white privilege really exists.
That is probably the most pathetic response ever.
 

Bad_azz

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Seems to me that the US really needs to dial the testosterone down a few thousand notches.
Events in Buffalo are an example- almost instant suspension for the officer/s involved.
 

dafluff

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I am waiting for white self-humiliating keyboard warriors to start first ;)
See, this feels much more like it is projection rather than criticism. First of all, you have no way of knowing what other members are doing or not doing in their life outside the forum. Further, you have no way of knowing what nationality, race, skin color etc most forum members are, yet they are "white".

I see that they have a high moral standing ground for situation 10,000 miles away, but anyway they live in a racist country without complaining-maybe because they enjoy living in one of the last countries in the world where white privilege really exists.
I am not denying that white privilege exists in Indonesia, but saying that it is "one of the last countries in the world where white privilege really exists" is straight up delusional. Frankly, didn't expect this one from you.
 
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dafluff

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Seems to me that the US really needs to dial the testosterone down a few thousand notches.
Events in Buffalo are an example- almost instant suspension for the officer/s involved.
They should be criminally charged also. Completely insane.
 

ponyexpress

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To be fair, Naomi Campbell is bit of a dated reference. Beyonce might have a more positive response.
Well I can pull out some other familiar names for younger generation. Sudanese model Akech Bior won't be seen as beautiful by Indonesians. This is a country where K-Pop stars and whitening cream are sought after. Now imagine being a Papuan in Indonesia.
 

Dave70

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Seems to me that the US really needs to dial the testosterone down a few thousand notches.
Events in Buffalo are an example- almost instant suspension for the officer/s involved.
The militarized US police is ramping up, so it's not going to deescalate easily as Trump has their back. Moreover, white supremacists have been infiltrating the police force for many years. The FBI have even warned about this during the time of President G.W. Bush.

 

Bad_azz

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The militarized US police is ramping up, so it's not going to deescalate easily as Trump has their back. Moreover, white supremacists have been infiltrating the police force for many years. The FBI have even warned about this during the time of President G.W. Bush.

I do find it quite ironic that Trump is now behind lots of bars being guarded by the department of corrections , a smile for me amongst the angst.
 

Helpful Herbert

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Well I can pull out some other familiar names for younger generation. Sudanese model Akech Bior won't be seen as beautiful by Indonesians. This is a country where K-Pop stars and whitening cream are sought after. Now imagine being a Papuan in Indonesia.
I just saw her pictures, and also not even close to Naomi Campbell in her prime. Actually there are better looking ladies than her in most kampungs in the Indonesian archipelago, including Papua. And that's from someone who prefers dark skin - I hate to think what Indonesians would say about her attractiveness!
 

centurion

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See, this feels much more like it is projection rather than criticism. First of all, you have no way of knowing what other members are doing or not doing in their life outside the forum. Further, you have no way of knowing what nationality, race, skin color etc most forum members are, yet they are "white".



I am not denying that white privilege exists in Indonesia, but saying that it is "one of the last countries in the world where white privilege really exists" is straight up delusional. Frankly, didn't expect this one from you.
Considering my life experience, and the way of the communication here I could assume that majority of forum members are Caucasians and mostly from that cultural background. There are of course others as well, but looks they are a minority.

In Indonesia white privilege really exists, as it is not systematical racism, but worse- a mental one, people truly believe that white people are better, smarter, more beautiful and have more money. This, of course, changed a little bit than 20 years ago. I find this sickening and perverted.

On the contrary, black people are at the bottom of the totem pole and are drug dealers, monkeys and criminals. Indians are better as they are mostly frauds, stink on curry and so on.

From the point of systematic racism, Trump administration looks like Mother Theresa compared to the Government of Indonesia. Javanese and religious (to not mention the real name) supremacy in Indonesia is far worse than anything on the "West". There was an article in JP today in favour of Papuan discrimination inspired by Floyd's case, look at the comment section and you will find it disgusting. Not to mention that Papuan protesters are trialled for treason charges for protesting. If anybody treated black people in the US as Papuans here in reality and in the media, the US would be really on fire (and it should have been).

Of course, there are other countries with same attitudes-China (forbidding black people to enter McDonald's, kicking them out of their flats to the streets), and Japan for example, but their racism is wider and to everybody.

I find it hypocritical to criticise the US so much, and, with rare examples to not complain against discrimination here. However, for a Caucasians enjoying here I see that it is hard to get out of their privileged comfort zone, where everybody is friendly to them because they are white, probably not noticing because of their whiteness. Next time, the one who said that that it is disgrace that Indonesian consulate do not recommend joining US protests, to join the next pro-Papuan rally for the higher cause. To quote the anonymous author: " First take the beam of wood out of your eye, and then you will see clearly to take the splinter out of your brother's eye".
 

Bad_azz

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Considering my life experience, and the way of the communication here I could assume that majority of forum members are Caucasians and mostly from that cultural background. There are of course others as well, but looks they are a minority.

In Indonesia white privilege really exists, as it is not systematical racism, but worse- a mental one, people truly believe that white people are better, smarter, more beautiful and have more money. This, of course, changed a little bit than 20 years ago. I find this sickening and perverted.

On the contrary, black people are at the bottom of the totem pole and are drug dealers, monkeys and criminals. Indians are better as they are mostly frauds, stink on curry and so on.

From the point of systematic racism, Trump administration looks like Mother Theresa compared to the Government of Indonesia. Javanese and religious (to not mention the real name) supremacy in Indonesia is far worse than anything on the "West". There was an article in JP today in favour of Papuan discrimination inspired by Floyd's case, look at the comment section and you will find it disgusting. Not to mention that Papuan protesters are trialled for treason charges for protesting. If anybody treated black people in the US as Papuans here in reality and in the media, the US would be really on fire (and it should have been).

Of course, there are other countries with same attitudes-China (forbidding black people to enter McDonald's, kicking them out of their flats to the streets), and Japan for example, but their racism is wider and to everybody.

I find it hypocritical to criticise the US so much, and, with rare examples to not complain against discrimination here. However, for a Caucasians enjoying here I see that it is hard to get out of their privileged comfort zone, where everybody is friendly to them because they are white, probably not noticing because of their whiteness. Next time, the one who said that that it is disgrace that Indonesian consulate do not recommend joining US protests, to join the next pro-Papuan rally for the higher cause. To quote the anonymous author: " First take the beam of wood out of your eye, and then you will see clearly to take the splinter out of your brother's eye".
I believe people do speak out here, however this specific thread is about America.
So maybe you could open the discussion about systematic discrimination, globally or specifically to Indonesia & that way you will engage people on topic there? Ones that might have no interest in this thread about America.
Just an idea :p
 

Helpful Herbert

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From the point of systematic racism, Trump administration looks like Mother Theresa compared to the Government of Indonesia. Javanese and religious (to not mention the real name) supremacy in Indonesia is far worse than anything on the "West".
Exactly. I never heard of religious riots and massacres in the US. If people are now free to protest about what happens in unconnected countries, why doesn't the whole world demonstrate against the FPI and their shenanigans with Ahok, not to mention Papua, the Aceh local government etc etc? Do "we" not deserve a hashtag and celebrity support?
 

dafluff

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Considering my life experience, and the way of the communication here I could assume that majority of forum members are Caucasians and mostly from that cultural background. There are of course others as well, but looks they are a minority.

In Indonesia white privilege really exists, as it is not systematical racism, but worse- a mental one, people truly believe that white people are better, smarter, more beautiful and have more money. This, of course, changed a little bit than 20 years ago. I find this sickening and perverted.

On the contrary, black people are at the bottom of the totem pole and are drug dealers, monkeys and criminals. Indians are better as they are mostly frauds, stink on curry and so on.

From the point of systematic racism, Trump administration looks like Mother Theresa compared to the Government of Indonesia. Javanese and religious (to not mention the real name) supremacy in Indonesia is far worse than anything on the "West". There was an article in JP today in favour of Papuan discrimination inspired by Floyd's case, look at the comment section and you will find it disgusting. Not to mention that Papuan protesters are trialled for treason charges for protesting. If anybody treated black people in the US as Papuans here in reality and in the media, the US would be really on fire (and it should have been).

Of course, there are other countries with same attitudes-China (forbidding black people to enter McDonald's, kicking them out of their flats to the streets), and Japan for example, but their racism is wider and to everybody.

I find it hypocritical to criticise the US so much, and, with rare examples to not complain against discrimination here. However, for a Caucasians enjoying here I see that it is hard to get out of their privileged comfort zone, where everybody is friendly to them because they are white, probably not noticing because of their whiteness. Next time, the one who said that that it is disgrace that Indonesian consulate do not recommend joining US protests, to join the next pro-Papuan rally for the higher cause. To quote the anonymous author: " First take the beam of wood out of your eye, and then you will see clearly to take the splinter out of your brother's eye".
As you have made it abundantly clear, you don't give a rat's ass about the plight of Papuans or any other racial injustices in Indonesia. Your concern trolling is merely aimed at stifling discussion on the subject matter as it pertains the current situation in the US. Quite frankly you finding anyone else "hypocritical" hilariously ironic.
 

centurion

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@dafluff
Everybody in Indonesia who enjoys the real white privilege, almost all Caucasians in Indonesia, should be aware that, if they/we are not self-reflective and self-critical, are in danger to be not "hypocritical", but simply -hypocritical, same as when Putin or Kim Jong Un critic the excessive use of police force in the US, as we have heard recently.

That position is the same as Augustine StClaire from Uncle Tom's Cabin (who did not read the novel-the rich and benevolent Southern slave owner, who is compassionate to his slaves and supports their emancipation but keeps his slaves anyway, enjoying being in his comfort zone).

And to back the discussion on track, I consider violence and burning a legitimate mean of the fight, but not effective. Looting, and killing, however, are not means of political fight and they have no excuse.

The violence and looting, if it lasts, and it lasts too long already, will alienate many moderate people, that will accept the so-called law&order, the sooner, the better. Also, the police are required to restrain but at the same time to keep the peace on the streets, which already makes internal conflict-whole unit resigned yesterday after a policeman pushed and an old guy who fell and heart his head-I consider the police having a solid argument here.

The unemployment went down yesterday and signs of economic recovery are present in US-Trump quickly grabbed that and used to change the narrative. He also succeeded to remove the coronavirus lockdowns as the protesters flooded the country and most of the politicians/governors, previously keeping the population at home with a stay at home orders with gloom and doom stories, complained.

Biden gave a statement yesterday, he looked like a tired and old man, and US flags behind him were wrinkled -not presidential at all.

In the end, this situation is likely to pave another term for Trump.

Non-violent methods, statistically, are more effective in reaching a cause, and that was the main mistake here.
 

harryopal

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Very encouraging that in cities across Australia today there have been large, multi racial crowds turn out for Black Lives Matter protests and making the link with the oppression of Aboriginal peoples.

With respect to looting in the United States it would seem that this was opportunistic criminal action rather than an element of protest. As much as anything, the participation of peoples of all races and colours in these protests sends an encouraging message of solidarity with black people who for so long have found themselves limited in opportunity based on historical and deliberate processes involving deprivation of liberty and lives.
 

macvert

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Very encouraging that in cities across Australia today there have been large, multi racial crowds turn out for Black Lives Matter protests and making the link with the oppression of Aboriginal peoples
I'm not so sure that holding mass rallies is the most intelligent thing to do given the current covid 19 situation.
 

Bad_azz

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As a little aside , but still in the US...
anyone gonna think of ladybugs in the same light ever again?
 

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