4/11, 25/11 and 2/12 anti-Ahok demonstrations

[Daniel50]

So do you people think Ahok will be convicted and go to jail?

 

[Jarno]

About as much chance calling it right as with flipping a coin

 

[ChrisTex]

Too early to tell. Right now it seems more like a pissing contest than an actual trial.

The one trial that has gone quiet all of a sudden is Budi, the video up loader. I haven't seen any facebook posts by Jakarta Post or Globe recently. I think that trial could be a deciding factor depending on how long Ahok's case goes on.

 

[Daniel50]

Australia National University associate professor Greg Fealy, an Indonesia expert, told ABC that while he does not believe Ahok has blasphemed, “there’s probably no way out for him now, except to go through this court process, which is very likely to find him guilty I suspect.”
Likewise, professor Tim Lindsay of Melbourne Law School said he expects Ahok will be convicted. Not only has a fatwa been issued against him, but the massive rallies have terrified authorities, he reportedly said. Consequently, Lindsay expects judges to be influenced by public opinion and pay little attention to evidence.

 

[fastpitch17]

Too early to tell. Right now it seems more like a pissing contest than an actual trial.

The one trial that has gone quiet all of a sudden is Budi, the video up loader. I haven't seen any facebook posts by Jakarta Post or Globe recently. I think that trial could be a deciding factor depending on how long Ahok's case goes on.

Your wish come true. In the news today. Doesn't say much but is on going.
http://jakartaglobe.id/news/buni-yani-questioned-again-in-cyber-harrasment-case/

 

[PhilippeD]

Fastpitch, I have scroll down the link you give which give more news.
At first I want add that I don't trust ANY of the Indonesian news, particularly in their detail, as they are too much often misleading.

But in overall, it sound positive.

Their is more and more police report filed against FPI
Yes someone in the army have trained member of the FPI BUT the population don't tolerate it. Which lead the army to remove the trainer from it's service.


I can feel the population less and less tolerant against the FPI and violence and I find it positive for Indonesia while so many called for a radicalisation of the country.

 

[PhilippeD]

Does the process of Ahok will end before the election?

What will happen if he win the election before the conclusion of the court process????

 

[atlantis]

What will happen if he win the election before the conclusion of the court process????

It won't affect the Court process.
If Ahok is sentenced, he has the right to appeal and, if the High Court confirms a guilty verdict, he has the right to apply for Cassation. This is only when Mahkamah Agung will give its decision that it will be binding and may have consequences on his status as a Governor if he has been elected.
If Ahok is acquitted the prosecutors can only apply for Cassation (there's no appeal on an acquittal).

 

[dafluff]

Ahok made a giant blunder yesterday as he assailed MUI chairman and expert witness Ma'ruf Amin. When questioned about his ties to SBY, Ma'ruf (who was twice on SBY's team of counsellors) denied that the connection is what compelled MUI to issue the fatwa which got Ahok in trouble. He also denied receiving phone calls from SBY the day prior to the fatwa being released.


To this Ahok said he is glad Ma'ruf denies the connection, and that he will file legal proceedings against Ma'ruf because he has proof of a phone call between SBY and Ma'ruf, and that he is not fit to be a witness. He said this in a tone that is incredibly rude by Indonesian standards. The problem is, besides being chairman of MUI, Ma'ruf is also chairman of NU, the largest Muslim organization in Indonesia, and the only one that is not out to lynch Ahok (yet). This has angered NU members everywhere, who so far have done their utmost to try and cool the situation, as well as support pluralism in face of increasing radicalization.


This proves to me that the guy just can't control his mouth. Number one, you are a defendant, shut up and let the lawyers do the talking. Number two, if you have such evidence then present it to the court instead and let it speak for itself.


Today there has been a lot of backtracking and damage control, but the damage is done.

 

[Daniel50]

Ahok made a giant blunder yesterday as he assailed MUI chairman and expert witness Ma'ruf Amin. When questioned about his ties to SBY, Ma'ruf (who was twice on SBY's team of counsellors) denied that the connection is what compelled MUI to issue the fatwa which got Ahok in trouble. He also denied receiving phone calls from SBY the day prior to the fatwa being released.


To this Ahok said he is glad Ma'ruf denies the connection, and that he will file legal proceedings against Ma'ruf because he has proof of a phone call between SBY and Ma'ruf, and that he is not fit to be a witness. He said this in a tone that is incredibly rude by Indonesian standards. The problem is, besides being chairman of MUI, Ma'ruf is also chairman of NU, the largest Muslim organization in Indonesia, and the only one that is not out to lynch Ahok (yet). This has angered NU members everywhere, who so far have done their utmost to try and cool the situation, as well as support pluralism in face of increasing radicalization.


This proves to me that the guy just can't control his mouth. Number one, you are a defendant, shut up and let the lawyers do the talking. Number two, if you have such evidence then present it to the court instead and let it speak for itself.


Today there has been a lot of backtracking and damage control, but the damage is done.

According to an article in the Jakarta Post from Jan 29/17 NU was already pledging support for Agus (according to our resident poster Dan NU is not as moderate as some people think)? He may have a hard time controlling what he says, but he still has a lot of support from Jakartans, in a predominately Muslim country. Some Indonesians did not seem to make too much out of Ahok's comments/confrontation. Not everyone respects these organizations and I am talking about Muslims.

 

[dafluff]

According to an article in the Jakarta Post from Jan 29/17 NU was already pledging support for Agus (according to our resident poster Dan NU is not as moderate as some people think)? He may have a hard time controlling what he says, but he still has a lot of support from Jakartans, in a predominately Muslim country. Some Indonesians did not seem to make too much out of Ahok's comments/confrontation. Not everyone respects these organizations and I am talking about Muslims.

Jakarta Post only mentions Jakarta chapter of NU. But if National level NU feel offended, everyday Muslims will have a hard time still supporting Ahok. The ones that still support Ahok are overwhelmingly NU aligned.

 

[fastpitch17]

Ahok has said he was not filing any charges against him. I think he primarily wanted to get in the judges head right now that their could be a conflict with the MUI since it and the NU did come out and say they supported Agus. Ahok is working on getting off from the charges against him now. Ending up in prison then the MUI and NU really don't matter since he won't be or remain to be governor any way. His first priority is to get off.

 

[fastpitch17]

[video]https://www.facebook.com/397275353797998/videos/595312437327621/[/video]

Peacefull loving group.

Video

 

[Daniel50]

[video]https://www.facebook.com/397275353797998/videos/595312437327621/[/video]

Peacefull loving group.

Video

Checking her I.D. and pushing her, assaulting her. These are some of the people some politicians are using to get elected. Pathetic. Just as pathetic some people actually believing this is the true Islam.

 

[fastpitch17]

Checking her I.D. and pushing her, assaulting her. These are some of the people some politicians are using to get elected. Pathetic. Just as pathetic some people actually believing this is the true Islam.

They never touched her until they read out loud that she was a christian. You can see she was physically afraid with their presence before they asked for her KTP.

 

[Daniel50]

When I see stuff like this it pisses me off. This is what some people want more of. In their thinking this will bring them closer to the true Islam, how distorted is that thinking. Hate is hate wherever it comes from.

 

[PhilippeD]

Ahok made a giant blunder yesterday as he assailed MUI chairman and expert witness Ma'ruf Amin. When questioned about his ties to SBY, Ma'ruf (who was twice on SBY's team of counsellors) denied that the connection is what compelled MUI to issue the fatwa which got Ahok in trouble. He also denied receiving phone calls from SBY the day prior to the fatwa being released.


To this Ahok said he is glad Ma'ruf denies the connection, and that he will file legal proceedings against Ma'ruf because he has proof of a phone call between SBY and Ma'ruf, and that he is not fit to be a witness. He said this in a tone that is incredibly rude by Indonesian standards. The problem is, besides being chairman of MUI, Ma'ruf is also chairman of NU, the largest Muslim organization in Indonesia, and the only one that is not out to lynch Ahok (yet). This has angered NU members everywhere, who so far have done their utmost to try and cool the situation, as well as support pluralism in face of increasing radicalization.


This proves to me that the guy just can't control his mouth. Number one, you are a defendant, shut up and let the lawyers do the talking. Number two, if you have such evidence then present it to the court instead and let it speak for itself.


Today there has been a lot of backtracking and damage control, but the damage is done.

It's just the normal way to discredit someone who lie about you.
First ask him question that you know he will lie about.
Then told him you have proof of the reverse with éclat for everyone to see.

It's sure the MUI & NU member are angry, their leader just got proven to be a low life liar with self political interest.

 

[ChrisTex]

When I see stuff like this it pisses me off. This is what some people want more of. In their thinking this will bring them closer to the true Islam, how distorted is that thinking. Hate is hate wherever it comes from.

And gives the muslims that do live peacefully a bad name. Most of the problems come from a select few(like WBC) who twist things to fit their agenda and they know they can get certain groups of society to blindly follow them.

I will be honest, the first time I came to Indonesia, I didn't know what to expect. I wasn't sure if it was going to be like some of the muslim countries I had seen on TV or read about on the internet(because everything on the internet is true). Long story short, my eyes were opened and showed every muslim country isn't like Saudi, Pakistan, etc...

 

[jstar]

Ahok made a giant blunder yesterday as he assailed MUI chairman and expert witness Ma'ruf Amin.......................................................................This proves to me that the guy just can't control his mouth. Number one, you are a defendant, shut up and let the lawyers do the talking. Number two, if you have such evidence then present it to the court instead and let it speak for itself.


Today there has been a lot of backtracking and damage control, but the damage is done.

Personally I agree with what you say, and in a different setting this might work against him. However, this being Indonesia, it often pays off to blare things in the media. Perhaps not even only in RI, even in a USA it seems to become more and more acceptable to present "alternate facts" and make statements which can't be proven. And silence often is being interpreted as guilty.

 

[fastpitch17]

Ahok has stated they do not have a recording or transcript of the conversation. Before this statement you had SBY all over the place accusing people of wiretapping him. If there was no conversation of what Ahok claimed then why would someone claim that others are wiretapping them? Pretty much an admission that it did happen as Ahok stated. I think SBY was worried that something did in fact exist.

I do like Jokowi's statement that SBY was barking up the wrong tree. What barks? Dogs.