4/11, 25/11 and 2/12 anti-Ahok demonstrations

[Davita]

I don't want to defend the guy, or attack Ahok, but he made the remarks as a private citizen in a private context, while Ahok made his remarks at a public event while "on the clock" in his government uniform.

Here is the report from Jakarta Post....

The Catholic Students Union (PMKRI) reported on Monday hard-line figure Rizieq Shihab, the man behind a string of sectarian rallies nationwide recently, for an alleged blasphemous sermon against Christianity.
The student group reported Islam Defenders Front (FPI) chairman Rizieqandt he owners of Twitter account @SayaReya and Ins tag ram account@ fa uzi_ ahmad_fiiqol by to the Jakarta Police after viewing a taped sermon in which Rizieq was accused of attacking the faith.
Angelius Wake Kako, the PMKRI chief, said Rizieq had insulted Christianity in his sermon conducted in Pondok Kelapa, East Jakarta, on Sunday by saying that God had no child.
“God has no child and is not begotten. If God gave birth, then who would be the midwife?†said a figure thought to be Rizieq during a sermon, which was recorded in a 22-second long video that went viral.
In the video, which has spread via Twitter and Instagram, the alleged blasphemous remarks were greeted with laughter from the audience.
Angelius said as a Christian who believed Jesus Christ was the son of God, he “felt humiliated and hurt†when he heard the statement.
“Indonesians shall respect differences by not interfering too much in other religions,†he said. “Only Christians know the Christian faith. Anyone who doesn’t know about it better keep quiet,†he went on.
Rizieq is accused of violating Article 156, section (a) of the Criminal Code (KUHP) on blasphemy, which carries a maximum sentence of five years in prison.

 

[fastpitch17]

The follow up.

TEMPO.CO, Jakarta - Chairman of the Indonesian Catholic Students Association (PMKRI) Angelo Wake Keko claimed to have no problem with the Islamic Defenders Front (FPI) plans to to report him for defaming Rizieq Shihab. "For people who felt harmed, your allowed [to make a] report," Angelo said on Monday, December 27, 2016.
Angelo appreciates FPI's plan to report him to the Police and remained confident that Rizieq Shihab, the group's leader, has defamed his religion.
"If God gave birth, who's the midwive?" Rizieq sia during a sermon at an event in Pondok Kelapa, East Jakarta on December 25, 2016. Angelo claimed that the statement, which has been widely spread across social media such as Instagram and Twitter, has defamed his religion.
FPI on the other hand, denied the allegation. According to the group, Rizieq's lecture was aimed strictly at Muslims. Nevertheless, Angelo pointed out that it has been spread across social media and can be seen by anyone, which includes non-Muslims. "Yes, it's now the public's consumption, I knew [about] it from Instagram," Angelo said.

 

[littleiyut]

Oh I do hope it will be some kind of justice somewhere and that man with the white robe will have his comeuppance.

 

[fastpitch17]

Oh I do hope it will be some kind of justice somewhere and that man with the white robe will have his comeuppance.

Don't hold your breath.

 

[William King]

I don't want to defend the guy, or attack Ahok, but he made the remarks as a private citizen in a private context, while Ahok made his remarks at a public event while "on the clock" in his government uniform.

Irrelevant as far as blasphemy goes.

 

[R Cameron]

Irrelevant as far as blasphemy goes.

Sure, the law draws no distinction, but of course not all blasphemy is prosecuted. I would dare to wager more clear and direct "blasphemy" is uttered hundreds of times a day in mosques and churches around the country. My prediction is that he won't be prosecuted, and the common reason/excuse given will be the difference I mentioned.

 

[dafluff]

Sure, the law draws no distinction, but of course not all blasphemy is prosecuted. I would dare to wager more clear and direct "blasphemy" is uttered hundreds of times a day in mosques and churches around the country. My prediction is that he won't be prosecuted, and the common reason/excuse given will be the difference I mentioned.

There are several previous blasphemy cases that were uttered in private and still prosecuted. There wasn't even a tape recording, just relying on testimony of witnesses.

At any rate, the whole country is apparently losing its mind, and the difference between one crazy and the other is just the cosplay they engage in.

 

[Davita]

There are several previous blasphemy cases that were uttered in private and still prosecuted. There wasn't even a tape recording, just relying on testimony of witnesses.

At any rate, the whole country is apparently losing its mind, and the difference between one crazy and the other is just the cosplay they engage in.

So true......from wiki.......On 28 June 2006, the Polewali, South Sulawesi state court sentenced Sumardi Tappaya, a Muslim and a high school religious teacher, to six months in prison for heresy after a relative accused him of whistling during prayers. The local MUI declared the whistling deviant.

 

[William King]

nice relative.

 

[Anglian]

Deviant, sounds like something from a Sci-fi film, scary.

 

[R Cameron]

Okay, I spent the past half-hour looking up previously prosecuted cases of blasphemy. Each one I found was someone who blasphemed their own religion. While I don't personally agree with the very existence of blasphemy laws, this makes more sense to me. After all, every time a Christian says "Jesus is God" they are blaspheming Islam, and every time a Muslim says "Jesus was merely a prophet" they are blaspheming Christianity.

So has something changed? Was this the intent? May Christians blaspheme the the Islamic God and scriptures as long as Muslims are not around? And Muslims blaspheme the Christian God and scriptures as long as Christians are not around? That would give a logical (though still absurd, IMO) reason for why Ahok is being prosecuted, since he dared to interpret Muslim's holy book to Muslims​ in a way that is at least somewhat controversial.

 

[macvert]

You can choose your friends but not your deviant relatives who blow the whistle …. beware. the thought police.

 

[Daniel50]

Okay, I spent the past half-hour looking up previously prosecuted cases of blasphemy. Each one I found was someone who blasphemed their own religion. While I don't personally agree with the very existence of blasphemy laws, this makes more sense to me. After all, every time a Christian says "Jesus is God" they are blaspheming Islam, and every time a Muslim says "Jesus was merely a prophet" they are blaspheming Christianity.

So has something changed? Was this the intent? May Christians blaspheme the the Islamic God and scriptures as long as Muslims are not around? And Muslims blaspheme the Christian God and scriptures as long as Christians are not around? That would give a logical (though still absurd, IMO) reason for why Ahok is being prosecuted, since he dared to interpret Muslim's holy book to Muslims​ in a way that is at least somewhat controversial.

A Muslim who converted to Catholicism, reportedly because of his wife, his name is Arswendo Atmowiloto. He is a writer and journalist. He did an opinion poll in a tabloid, The Monitor. He asked who is the reader's favourite person? Which character, or person, do you look up to the most? He came in #10 and Prophet Muhammad came in #11. They published the results. He went to court and was sentenced to 5 years as some of the Muslims were angry, this was in 1990. He wrote some novels while in prison and after.
My thought is, if they published something like that today the response would be worse.

 

[R Cameron]

A Muslim who converted to Catholicism, reportedly because of his wife, his name is Arswendo Atmowiloto.

I did read a little about that and I find it appalling. It was in 1990 though, for better or worse, a different political era. I was trying to find examples more recently, at least since '98 but the newer the better. Does anyone know of a list online?

 

[Daniel50]

I did read a little about that and I find it appalling. It was in 1990 though, for better or worse, a different political era. I was trying to find examples more recently, at least since '98 but the newer the better. Does anyone know of a list online?

I thought you did a great job. This one was brought to my attention and I found it interesting.

 

[Davita]

Does anyone know of a list online?

There is a list of recent events here and maybe by checking the addendum more can be found.....https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blasphemy_law_in_Indonesia

 

[atlantis]

Does anyone know of a list online?

You have a bunch of cases to be downloaded on the Mahkamah Agung website, which include a few interfaith cases like katolik vs kristen (there are quite a few of them), muslim vs ateis (the infamous case of Alexander Aan for example), hindhu vs kristen (the case of Ibu Rusgiani which occurred three or four years ago is often quoted as an example by those who would like to have Ahok sentenced), etc... albeit the majority are, as you noticed, within the same faith.

However, be aware that navigating MA's website if you don't know what you look for and/or if you don't have a fair command of Bahasa Indonesia is pointless. Anyway, if you input keywords such as "penodaan" and "penistaan", it should already give you some lead.

 

[Jarno]

You have a bunch of cases to be downloaded on the Mahkamah Agung website, which include a few interfaith cases like katolik vs kristen (there are quite a few of them), muslim vs ateis (the infamous case of Alexander Aan for example), hindhu vs kristen (the case of Ibu Rusgiani which occurred three or four years ago is often quoted as an example by those who would like to have Ahok sentenced), etc... albeit the majority are, as you noticed, within the same faith.

However, be aware that navigating MA's website if you don't know what you look for and/or if you don't have a fair command of Bahasa Indonesia is pointless. Anyway, if you input keywords such as "penodaan" and "penistaan", it should already give you some lead.

Strange thing is that Alexander Aan didn't actually get convicted for blasphemy but for inciting religious hatred or something like that.

 

[atlantis]

Strange thing is that Alexander Aan didn't actually get convicted for blasphemy but for inciting religious hatred or something like that.

What we commonly call "Blasphemy laws" comprise several articles of law found in three different statute. Alexander Aan has been prosecuted and sentenced with the infamous ITE law and notably for infringing its article 28 (2) which is as below:

Pasal 28 (2) UU 11/2008:
Setiap Orang dengan sengaja dan tanpa hak menyebarkaninformasi yang ditujukan untuk menimbulkan rasakebencian atau permusuhan individu dan/atau kelompokmasyarakat tertentu berdasarkan atas suku, agama, ras,dan antargolongan (SARA)

It prohibits that anyone knowingly and without authorization disseminates information aimed at inciting hatred or dissension among individuals and/or certain groups of people based on ethnicity, religions, races, and inter-groups. It is referred as SARA which stands for Suku, Agama, RAs and Antargolongan (though sometimes also incorrectly referred as Suku, Adat, Ras dan Agama).

It was the dakwaan primair for the prosecutors. Article 156a huruf a and 156a huruf b were only coming second and third in the accusation bill of the prosecutors in Aan's trial. Ahok is indicted with article 156 and 156a, but obviously not with the ITE law.

If I remember correctly Aan has been sentenced to 2 and a half years by Pengadilan Negeri Muaro which has been confirmed both in appeal and cassation.

SARA is a very common idiom/acronym used in Indonesia and any foreigners should be aware of its signification and possible consequences. What may be considered as part of the freedom of speech in the "western world" may be harshly sanctioned here in Indonesia and if not in Court, at least by most Indonesians. Saying for example that anyone believing in God is stupid and that atheism should prevail would definitively invite you to heaps of troubles if reported. Same if you would be saying, for example that Javanese are a bunch of lazy lads and that you'd prefer working with Papuans (or Sumatrans or whoever else).

If online, in a forum or on FB or any social network for example, it may be prosecuted with art.28 UU 8/2011 and if said publicly, then art.156/156a KUHP would be the one used.

 

[Asun]

I guess George Carlin's skit about religion would be a big no-no in Indonesia.