CIA Front Group Preparing A "Color Revolution" In Indonesia?

[centurion]

You still believe in that B.S. ?

Mao, Stalin and Co. killed tens of millions of people-their own and others, more than Hitler in WW2. Immigrants from these countries in the West are more patriotic than local indigenous self-loathers and leftist intelectuals (Lenin had a name for them - useful idiots).

But in totalitarian systems you do not have the free press and media where you can debate about these issues.

US Government comparing to them looks like a humanitarian society.

 

[Balifrog]

Mao, Stalin and Co. killed tens of millions of people-their own and others, more than Hitler in WW2. Immigrants from these countries in the West are more patriotic than local indigenous self-loathers and leftist intelectuals (Lenin had a name for them - useful idiots).

But in totalitarian systems you do not have the free press and media where you can debate about these issues.

US Government comparing to them looks like a humanitarian society.

VN war : 3 million death, of which 2 million civilians
Indonesia : 1 million + 2 million in.concentration camps.
South America (Us Meddled in all of them, Brazil, Peru, Nicaragua, Urugay, Venezuela, Argentina....) probably 500k death
Interventions, corruption, in whole Europe since 1944.
Coup d'état supported / funded by US in Iraq (1958), Iran (1953), Cambodia, Laos....
The list goes on and on...
Add a few 100k in Ukraine as your "jihad against communism" still goes on.

When you have the USA as ally, you don't need an ennemy anymore......

Just look at the 1945 onwards period.....

United States involvement in regime change - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Learn your history.....

 

[centurion]

VN war : 3 million death, of which 2 million civilians
Indonesia : 1 million + 2 million in.concentration camps.
South America (Us Meddled in all of them, Brazil, Peru, Nicaragua, Urugay, Venezuela, Argentina....) probably 500k death
Interventions, corruption, in whole Europe since 1944.
Coup d'état supported / funded by US in Iraq (1958), Iran (1953), Cambodia, Laos....
The list goes on and on...
Add a few 100k in Ukraine as your "jihad against communism" still goes on.

When you have the USA as ally, you don't need an ennemy anymore......

Just look at the 1945 onwards period.....

United States involvement in regime change - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Learn your history.....

These are killings of own population, that are first coming at my mind:
Mao: 40-80 million peope in famine, Cultural Revolution etc.
Stalin: In Gulags only, 6-9 million. Holodomor in Ukraine 3-5 million.
Pol Pot: 1.5-2 million

Estimates of killings of own population under communist regimes are up to 140-150 million people. Not to mention wars, Afganistan war, Soviets: 0.5-2million, and so on...

Comparing to them, US Government is Vienna Boys Choir.

As Lenin would said: "useful idiots".

 

[Balifrog]

These are killings of own population, that are first coming at my mind:
Mao: 40-80 million peope in famine, Cultural Revolution etc.
Stalin: In Gulags only, 6-9 million. Holodomor in Ukraine 3-5 million.
Pol Pot: 1.5-2 million

Estimates of killings of own population under communist regimes are up to 140-150 million people. Not to mention wars, Afganistan war, Soviets: 0.5-2million, and so on...

Comparing to them, US Government is Vienna Boys Choir.

As Lenin would said: "useful idiots".

one can't reasonably argue with a brainwashed fanatic.....

 

[pantaiema]

Two very powerfull documentaries on the subject. Both in Indonesian, but one has English subtitles

Difficult to watch.

These documentaries are banned until 2017. There are a lot of news articles, commentary regarding these documentaries. This was just one in many examples:

TNI chief challenged to screen Jagal and Senyap, not just anti-communist propaganda film

Dedy Priatmojo, Reza Fajri – House of Representatives (DPR) Indonesian Democratic Party of Struggle (PDI-P) faction member Eva Sundari says that TNI (Indonesian military) chief General Gatot Nurmantyo must be balance in screening the historical film about the 1965 affair. According to Eva, they...

www.indoleft.org

Glad to see that the documentaries like this are finally allowed to be shown to public. It demonstrates how the Indonesian history book taught to school children were heavily manipulated.

During Suharto era, it was only the approved history books could be used to teach the school children. Other history books which divert from this version is banned and the author might be ending up in jail.

 

[harryopal1]

These are killings of own population, that are first coming at my mind:
Mao: 40-80 million peope in famine, Cultural Revolution etc.
Stalin: In Gulags only, 6-9 million. Holodomor in Ukraine 3-5 million.
Pol Pot: 1.5-2 million

Estimates of killings of own population under communist regimes are up to 140-150 million people. Not to mention wars, Afganistan war, Soviets: 0.5-2million, and so on...

Comparing to them, US Government is Vienna Boys Choir.

As Lenin would said: "useful idiots".

Two gangs set about robbing banks. The first gang robs a bank and kills 30 people. The second gang robs a bank and kills only six. So the logic of the argument above says the second gang are good guys. Somehow countries need to move away from these murderous campaigns. And many in the US are appalled by Guantanamo Bay and the nefarious activities of the CIA. What can be said for the US is there are humanitarian forces at work trying to move in a better direction and at least the information is more readily available about the real history even while of course the present government seems determined to pursue Julian Assange and set him in prison for the rest of his life for disclosing unpleasant facts about the war in Afghanistan and other sensitive issues. That said, I daresay Mr Putin would have dealt with this in a much more direct way.

 

[Hawk256]

Two gangs set about robbing banks. The first gang robs a bank and kills 30 people. The second gang robs a bank and kills only six. So the logic of the argument above says the second gang are good guys.

This is a common tactic in day to day politics as well. IE, At least (A) is better than (B) or (C) did much worse than (D). At some point we started judging one persons behavior by comparing to another's instead of holding someone fully accountable for their own behavior.

 

[Shadrach]

Two gangs set about robbing banks. The first gang robs a bank and kills 30 people. The second gang robs a bank and kills only six. So the logic of the argument above says the second gang are good guys. Somehow countries need to move away from these murderous campaigns. And many in the US are appalled by Guantanamo Bay and the nefarious activities of the CIA. What can be said for the US is there are humanitarian forces at work trying to move in a better direction and at least the information is more readily available about the real history even while of course the present government seems determined to pursue Julian Assange and set him in prison for the rest of his life for disclosing unpleasant facts about the war in Afghanistan and other sensitive issues. That said, I daresay Mr Putin would have dealt with this in a much more direct way.

I always heard two wrongs don't make a right, but as you point out the lesser of two wrongs is better? Nowadays with social media you can't tell what is true or not. I had forgotton about Julien Assange. They're still after him? I haven't been in touch with US political news much anymore. Your right about Putin dealing with it more directly. I did get an email saying the Chinese economy is going to go down and it will effect all of Asia. We know they have their fingers in many pies here. So we'll see if they want to collect. on some loans!

 

[centurion]

This is a common tactic in day to day politics as well. IE, At least (A) is better than (B) or (C) did much worse than (D). At some point we started judging one persons behavior by comparing to another's instead of holding someone fully accountable for their own behavior.

Correct, and that is called a standard (one of the definitions is : norm, normal, or average). If A killed 150 million own people, and killed many othes, and B killed much less, than B is approaching more to the standard of good governance than A, which is thrue.

That is why people are emigrating from totalitarian countries and immigrating to the US, legally and illegally, despites self-loathers and useful idiots claiming otherwise.

 

[centurion]

Two gangs set about robbing banks. The first gang robs a bank and kills 30 people. The second gang robs a bank and kills only six. So the logic of the argument above says the second gang are good guys.

The argument is that the second gang are better guys.

 

[Shadrach]

The argument is that the second gang are better guys.

Or the lesser of two evils!

 

[Shadrach]

It reminds me of the movie Master and Commander when Russell Crowe asked the Doctor which weevil would be better to eat and the doctor said the larger one and Russell Crowe said no you should always pick ( The lesser of Two Weevils )

 

[Hawk256]

Or the lesser of two evils!

I agree with this assessment much more than than the second gang being better guys. Standards shouldn't change from individual to individual or group to group.

 

[serious_fun]

- The Devil's Chessboard

The Dulles brothers were ba$tards. They, (at the behest of their masters of course), are responsible for countless deaths and untold suffering...

 

[serious_fun]

One is reminded that with the CIA being instrumental in ...

Which "CIA"? The "Cocaine Importers of America" or "Christians In Action" ?

Nasty business.

One shouldn't ignore their elder cousins in crime: SIS/MI6 and/or whatever else they call themselves (the "British Council"? )

 

[harryopal1]

It seems that when people come into positions of power they accept that their own sense of morality should be put aside in the pursuit of national interest. After that step, almost anything goes. Here is an interesting link to how the US and CIA post WW11 got into hiring Japanese and German torturers to explain the mechanics in a quest to develop mind control as it was feared that the Soviets were already ahead in that area. This led to LSD and a host of experiments on unwitting subjects with many going insane or dying.


And the ABC has a story about how conspiracy theories develop which is worth a read as we begin to hurl insults at each other for seeing the world differently.

Lizard people, the Illuminati and the CIA: How conspiracy theories thrive on fear

The United States has a long history with conspiracy theories, and Australia isn't immune to them either.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Bob]

One is reminded that with the CIA being instrumental in kickstarting and encouraging that terrible purge across the Indonesian archipelago the lessons learned as to the value of torture, atrocity, murder and terror in achieving a desirable end, the CIA then went on to manage the Phoenix program in Vietnam that ran from 1969 to 1972 with some 80,000 suspects "neutralized and over 26,000 killed.

During the 70s and 80s, the CIA was also busy encouraging death squads and the neutralization of leftist seen as a threat to "democracy" throughout Central and South America. Fort Moore, later renamed as Fort Benning in Georgia USA was notable as a centre for training in torture and other persuasive techniques with some 60,000 Latin American military, law enforcement, and security personnel receiving training. Interesting to note that Indonesian Defence Minister Prabowo spent time at Fort Benning in the 1980s.

And so spins the world. While some with these specialist skills have been prosecuted around the world for crimes others remain untouched and, within the CIA and other like agencies, receive medals and rewards for their patriotic services.

I recall during the Vietnam war a unique front page news story broke about Australian soldiers using water boarding on a young Vietnamese woman. Did they just think it up at the time as something to try. I suspect they also were the beneficiaries of extended training connections as Australia was also involved in the Phoenix program.

Just a note: Ft. Moore is the current name of what was Ft. Benning.

 

[John indonesia]

I read about the constitutional court thing where a labor union tried to lower the election threshold.
Only one of the three could gain from that.
Then we have the CIA messing in a visa application some years ago - Seems they called the applicant 'a friend of America' (or something like that). It was on Wikileaks and mentioned in the press at the time.
Is it Anies?

 

[John indonesia]

Found it

Cable: 09JAKARTA1612_a

It proves nothing, but it shows the CIA are interested

 

[Samoerai]

Found it

Cable: 09JAKARTA1612_a

It proves nothing, but it shows the CIA are interested

Wow, USA speaks highly of Anies:


"As one of Indonesia's best and brightest intellectuals, Mr. Baswedan was the main speaker at a recent Iftar (breaking fast) event hosted by the Ambassador at the EMR. He is rector of the prestigious Paramadina University in Jakarta. He has traveled repeatedly to the United
States, most recently in 2007 on a J-1 visa. He is a Fulbright alumnus and serves on the Fulbright Commission here in Jakarta. In April 2008, he was named by "Foreign Policy" magazine as one of the top 100 public intellectuals in the world."