Did Hamas use Indonesian Shifa Hospital as a human shield ?

[pantaiema]

Shifa Hospital in Gaza is constructed and financially supported by the Indonesian government. It is possibly the largest hospital in the region. Offering humanitarian assistance to those injured is undeniably a commendable effort. But why built hospital in conflict area in Gaza strip, considering the Gaza strip is just 21 miles long ??
If there were any truth to the allegation that it is being employed as a human shield, this would change the dynamics significantly. It has been reported it has tunnel connected to the shifa hospital.

What is a human shield and how has Hamas been accused of using them?

Israel claims group has placed command centre under hospital and is deliberately shielding behind Palestinian civilians

www.theguardian.com

Israel Says Al Shifa Hospital Conceals Hamas Underground Command Centers (Published 2023)

The group denies the accusation, saying Israel has offered “fabricated” evidence.

www.nytimes.com

https://www.timesofisrael.com/in-interrogation-video-hamas-terrorists-confirm-groups-hideout-under-gaza-hospital/

The perils of radicalism are significant. While one's choice to sacrifice themselves may be their own, involving others due to one's beliefs is a different concern. In any conflict, it's the civilians who inevitably suffer as victims.

 

[nd_eric_77]

I heard on a moderate Western podcast that there is strong evidence (including testimony from a Hamas militant) that Hamas is storing weapons directly underneath the Shifa hospital.

 

[Bob]

Shifa Hospital in Gaza is constructed and financially supported by the Indonesian government. It is possibly the largest hospital in the region. Offering humanitarian assistance to those injured is undeniably a commendable effort. But why built hospital in conflict area in Gaza strip, considering the Gaza strip is just 21 miles long ??
If there were any truth to the allegation that it is being employed as a human shield, this would change the dynamics significantly. It has been reported it has tunnel connected to the shifa hospital.

What is a human shield and how has Hamas been accused of using them?

Israel claims group has placed command centre under hospital and is deliberately shielding behind Palestinian civilians

www.theguardian.com

Israel Says Al Shifa Hospital Conceals Hamas Underground Command Centers (Published 2023)

The group denies the accusation, saying Israel has offered “fabricated” evidence.

www.nytimes.com

https://www.timesofisrael.com/in-interrogation-video-hamas-terrorists-confirm-groups-hideout-under-gaza-hospital/

The perils of radicalism are significant. While one's choice to sacrifice themselves may be their own, involving others due to one's beliefs is a different concern. In any conflict, it's the civilians who inevitably suffer as victims.

You asked why build a hospital in Gaza. Why not put a hospital where it's needed?

 

[Hawk256]

Would you expect Israeli intelligence said anything other than that? Their views might be a little tainted, don't you think?

 

[Hawk256]

I heard on a moderate Western podcast that there is strong evidence (including testimony from a Hamas militant) that Hamas is storing weapons directly underneath the Shifa hospital.

I heard on a podcast that a guy was abducted and probed by aliens or that Elvis is still alive. What is your point?

 

[centurion]

"The population density in the Gaza Strip is among the highest in the world, with 5,855 people per square kilometer. According to estimates by the United Nations."

"The city (comprising Jakarta and its metro area) spans 4384 km2 and has a population density of around 13,000 people per km2 (Idem)"

"New York City is the most populous city with a population size of 8,804,194. The population density in New York City is 29,302.66 people per square mile (11,313.81 people per square kilometer)."

"In 2021, the population density in Denpasar regency in Bali, Indonesia amounted to 5.69 thousand individuals per square kilometer, making it the regency with the highest population density in the island. Bali's population reached 4.36 million people in that year. Indonesia is currently the fourth most populous nation in the world and the population of Indonesia is forecast to reach approximately 312.51 million people by 2040."

 

[nd_eric_77]

I heard on a podcast that a guy was abducted and probed by aliens or that Elvis is still alive. What is your point?

Hamas is a terrorist organization that intentionally launches rockets from residential areas and has the utter annihilation of Israel as a core tenant of its charter. So yes, it is plausible, if not outright expected that Hamas would use hospitals as cover for military operations. Do you disagree with any of the above?

 

[fastpitch17]

I heard on a podcast that a guy was abducted and probed by aliens or that Elvis is still alive. What is your point?

Elvis is alive?

 

[fastpitch17]

It's been reported in many media outlets that Hamas likes to build facilities under the hospitals. That doesn't mean they are directly involved in the hospitals. The Indonesian hospital had 14,000 individuals come to the hospital after Israels started bombing Gaza. Many stayed simply because they had no where else to seek shelter. Were any of them Hamas? Probably but when you are overwhelmed like that, do you even ask? Their function is to treat the sick and wounded while at the same time running out of all supplies on hand.

 

[pantaiema]

You asked why build a hospital in Gaza. Why not put a hospital where it's needed?

Well, Everyone has their own perspective, but let's dig into it.

What is the Gaza Strip? It's a widely recognized area of conflict.

How large is Shifa Hospital? It has 1,500 beds and approximately 4,000 staff members, all of whom are civilians.

What is the cost of building such hospital known that there is high chance get destroyed in the conflict ? I doubt any insurance would want to take part in it without charging an extra ordinary premium.

What is the length of the Gaza Strip? It's merely 21 miles long. Can it not be moved 21 miles further away ??

What is the purpose of ambulance services? I will leave this question open

 

[Hawk256]

Hamas is a terrorist organization that intentionally launches rockets from residential areas and has the utter annihilation of Israel as a core tenant of its charter. So yes, it is plausible, if not outright expected that Hamas would use hospitals as cover for military operations. Do you disagree with any of the above?

What does Hamas being a terrorist organzatition have to do with Israel's cupablitly for their reaction and the fact that intelligence agencies aren't alway honest? Where were Iraqs weapons of mass destruction? Why did they say Hunter's laptop was disinformation? The point is you can't expect any intelligence agency to always be honest and transparent. Just because they said so, doesn't mean it's true and seeing on the internet doesn't make it more true.

 

[Hawk256]

What is the length of the Gaza Strip? It's merely 21 miles long. Can it not be moved 21 miles further away ??

Considering that Gazans can't leave the area, how are they supposed to get to a hospital 21 miles away? What urban area on earth has a hospital 21 miles away?

 

[Wisnu]

the story of the hospital - in bahasa indonesia; hopefully will give better overview that it was more difficult situation than building Bali International hospital.

RS Indonesia, palestina, rumah sakit

mer-c indonesia | Rumah Sakit Indonesia, Gaza - Palestina - Palestina

mer-c.org

 

[Hawk256]

Hospital or refugee camp, what does it really matter? Israel just bombed a refugee camp because there might have been 1 terrorist there. Why would they stop short of bombing a hospital that may be the cover for a terrorist base based on what they say?

https://www.yahoo.com/news/idf-spokesperson-confirms-cnn-wolf-141103847.html

 

[Ruserious]

Even if the hospital was 21 miles away who is to say Hamas wont still but something under it?

 

[Hawk256]

Once didn't seem to be enough.

Second Israeli airstrike in two days pummels Gaza refugee camp, deepening a growing outcry

Israel bombed the densely-populated Jabalya refugee camp in northern Gaza for the second time in two days Wednesday, prompting warnings of war crimes as more nations took diplomatic measures and condemned Israel’s offensive in the besieged enclave.

www.yahoo.com

 

[Bob]

Well, Everyone has their own perspective, but let's dig into it.

What is the Gaza Strip? It's a widely recognized area of conflict.

How large is Shifa Hospital? It has 1,500 beds and approximately 4,000 staff members, all of whom are civilians.

What is the cost of building such hospital known that there is high chance get destroyed in the conflict ? I doubt any insurance would want to take part in it without charging an extra ordinary premium.

What is the length of the Gaza Strip? It's merely 21 miles long. Can it not be moved 21 miles further away ??

What is the purpose of ambulance services? I will leave this question open

I don't think you factored in precipitation and average wind speed. In case you're wondering, that means what you wrote is irrelevant.
Hospitals are built where there's a need for them. There's definitely a need for this one exactly where it was built.

 

[pantaiema]

Considering that Gazans can't leave the area, how are they supposed to get to a hospital 21 miles away? What urban area on earth has a hospital 21 miles away?

Are we referring to hospital in urban area or Hospital in a well known conflict zone??
I think hospitals in urban areas are more likely to build helipad to be used by Helicopter, eVTOL rather than to build a mesh of underground tunnels.

In urban areas, especially in exclusive areas, hospitals are typically run as businesses, and there are often many private hospitals, making it a competitive industry where people may choose to invest. These hospitals are usually permanent buildings with modern and advanced facilities with the capacity to handle various medical needs and treatments.

In contrast, hospitals in conflict areas, especially in regions affected by ongoing conflicts or wars, may have different structures and characteristics. Due to the unstable nature of conflict zones, you may find semi-permanent or temporary structures such as military barracks, open wards, and military beds serving as medical facilities. These hospitals are designed to provide essential medical care under challenging conditions, and their primary focus is on treating casualties and injured individuals resulting from the conflict.

The two types of hospitals serve distinct purposes and operate in very different environments.

 

[Bob]

Of course.

Elvis is alive?

Of course. He hangs out at Amigos Kemang.

 

[fastpitch17]

Are we referring to hospital in urban area or Hospital in a well known conflict zone??
I think hospitals in urban areas are more likely to build helipad to be used by Helicopter, eVTOL rather than to build a mesh of underground tunnels.

In urban areas, especially in exclusive areas, hospitals are typically run as businesses, and there are often many private hospitals, making it a competitive industry where people may choose to invest. These hospitals are usually permanent buildings with modern and advanced facilities with the capacity to handle various medical needs and treatments.

In contrast, hospitals in conflict areas, especially in regions affected by ongoing conflicts or wars, may have different structures and characteristics. Due to the unstable nature of conflict zones, you may find semi-permanent or temporary structures such as military barracks, open wards, and military beds serving as medical facilities. These hospitals are designed to provide essential medical care under challenging conditions, and their primary focus is on treating casualties and injured individuals resulting from the conflict.

The two types of hospitals serve distinct purposes and operate in very different environments.

This is so far removed from critical thought it's pathetic. Gaza was not at war. All conflict was conducted by the terrorist group Hamas and the evil government heads of Israel. In a normal day, the hospitals see the same needs of their patients as hospitals do around the world. The need for hospitals is great. Now that Netanyahu has decided he has his opportunity to eliminate all Palestinians, men, women, children, and babies, the hospitals have even a greater need simply because they are stationary and people know where to go.

You may claim that some of those being treated at the hospitals are Hamas and you will probably be correct. Medical personnel are trained to treat those in need. No one ever condemned me or my associates when we treated a wounded VC combatant. No one complained when we treated villagers in need of medical attention. Yes, I worked out of mobil hospitals and I can honestly say that many were not treated that could have been simply because we were either too far away or our location was unknown for obvious reasons.

Pantaiema. I suggest you stop posting about this since it is obvious you haven't a clue as to how things work or what necitates a need for a permanent medical facility. JMHO

As for tunnels under the hospital, what is your source that they were built by the hospital or were even aware of their presence? If the hospital was involved in tunnels in all likelyhood they were put there with the idea of evacuation needs.