Mobil Rakyat...new cars

[jstar]

Talking about the financial aspects of EVs: The government will provide incentives for electric vehicles. It is estimated that starting June 2023 subsidies for electric vehicles will be in place.

However, there are conditions so that electric cars can get incentives. According to the Minister of Industry Agus Gumiwang Kartasasmita, the main requirement for subsidized electric cars is that they must be produced domestically. "Once again, those who get incentives are those who have factories," Agus said in the 2022 End of Year Press Conference & 2023 Industry Outlook Seminar two days ago. He added: “So we’re announcing plans to provide incentives, one of my statements from Brussels is that this is the government's effort to pressure the automotive industry to invest in electric vehicles in Indonesia,"

They're not sure yet about the amounts of the subsidies. However, they expect roughly 80 million rupiah for electric cars, 40 million for hybrid cars and 8 juta for electric motorbikes. This is in line with subsidies of the western countries (perhaps het got the idea from his Brussels trip?), perhaps he leaned from their situation and wants to avoid an invasion of cheap Chinese brands.

So in fact we’re not really talking about electric vehicles but electrified vehicles. The demand to produce locally might incentivize players like Toyota to sell more hybrids but for the manufacturers of ‘real’ EV models it is somewhat of an unrealistic showpiece. Setting up a new factory is not something you do in one year, and who guarantees the measures will last? Also look at the situation of Tesla in India, where there is an impasse for creating a new factory, due to disagreements between the company and the government.

 

[jstar]

The Toyota Innova is available as a hybrid version. The turbo diesel disappears. The model is officially called:

KIJANG Innova Zenix Hybrid EV​

There’s something rather special with this car; due to the very hot weather in Indonesia, it uses nickel–metal hydride (Ni-MH) batteries. So no Li-Ion. They go under the front seats which could be a bit of a safety concern with banjir, but according to a Toyota engineer, it has a proven impermeable housing.

The battery which is produced locally in Karawang, is also quite a bit cheaper than in other hybrids, it would cost approx. 30 juta to replace. It only has a capacity of 1.3 kWh (6,5 aH). The warranty will be 8 years or 160.000 km.

The prices start at 458 million for the model G and go up to 611 million for the Q, which has captain seats and ottoman on the second row.

A direct competitor would be the Wuling Almaz Hybrid which costs IDR 470,000,000

 

[jstar]

In the hybrid world there are two major systems called HEV and PHEV.

The latter you can charge yourself with a cable. It gives an electric autonomy of ca. 40-60 km. When the battery is empty, it becomes automatically an HEV, which lets the electric and fuel engine work together seamlessly.

I only know of one PHEV model in Indonesia, the Mitsubishi Outlander. Years ago this car was very popular in Western Europe because of tax perks.

Having said that, it is not impossible that Toyota will introduce the PHEV version of the brand new Prius in Indonesia.

Alasan Toyota Prius PHEV Cocok Dipakai di Indonesia | PT. Toyota Astra Motor | Mobil Terbaik Keluarga Indonesia

Mendukung program pemerintah untuk akselerasi kendaraan elektrifikasi, PT Toyota-Astra Motor (TAM) memperkenalkan Prius Plug-In Hybrid Electric Vehicle (PHEV) untuk melengkapi jajaran kendaraan elektrifikasi Toyota di Indonesia. Sebelumnya segmen ini telah diisi oleh Prius Hybrid Electric...

www.toyota.astra.co.id

This car always had a very strong pro- and contra-audience. The new model looks rather sporty and is styling wise not such a “suppository for the retired” anymore.

Of course one could ask if a sedan will become very popular if you can also have a Corolla Cross or even RAV4 for that price?

 

[jstar]

There is one other type of hybrid, and it is an outsider.

Now it becomes technical: Normally the hybrid systems are parallel. That means the electric motor works simultaneously with the fuel engine. Both can ‘power the wheels’ so to speak.

Nissan developed a rather unique system quite some years ago, they call it ePower and it is a serial system. There is a fuel engine which only charges the batteries; it functions as a generator*. And the drivetrain is completely electric so as driver it feels like you’re driving an electric car. They also included an engine with variable compression which is the holy grail in fuel engines.

All very nice and dandy but it is not more fuel efficient than a ’regular’ hybrid so one can ask himself what‘s the use of the system. Obviously you do get exposure to electric driving and the batteries, which normally are heavy and expensive, can stay small.

Anyway, it has been very popular in Japan for 6 years already and now they’re rolling it out to the US and Europe with the Rogue (or X-Trail) and Qashqai (not available here, Rogue Sport or Dualis elsewhere).

In Indonesia this ePower system also exists, it is available in the Kicks. Not cheap, 515 juta.

nissan kicks

nissan kicks

nissan.co.id

* BMW had an electric car, the i3. It was also available with a so called range extender which was similar; a fuel based engine that charges the batteries. But it only kicked in when additional ‘juice’ was needed so far from a permanent system.

 

[R Cameron]

There is a fuel engine which only charges the batteries; it functions as a generator*.

Oh, like this Tesla accessory?

 

[pantaiema]

This EV is currently trending on FB. I am not quite sure whether this is just a show or will become the Yogyakarta Police Force as patrolling vehicles. Hopefully they are not favouring particular vendors.but they get it at the competitive price
price,

 

[jstar]

Yeah, they have six of those. The range is only 80 kilometers which is tiny if you consider the 21 kWh battery. So they’re rather inefficient, normally this capacity should offer a range of 110-120 km. If you compare it with a Nissan Leaf from 7 years ago. Compared with a Renault Zoe it’s even worse; that one had a 22 kWh lithium-ion battery pack which delivered a range around 210 km (130 mi).

 

[jstar]

A bit of news on what we can expect in 2023 from the Chinese and Japanese manufacturers:

Wuling
The Alvez will be a five-passenger SUV with a 1,500 cc engine that should compete with the Honda HR-V in Indonesia.

Honda
During the GIIAS expo 2022, Honda showed the Accord e:HEV and CR-V e:HEV so it is expected that both hybrids make it to the consumer this year. The weird thing is that the CR-V is a completely new model in the USA and Europe but it’s unclear when that will come to Indonesia. As you can see, the design style is somewhat similar to the HR-V, with no more chrome.

Daihatsu
Interestingly, Daihatsu will enter the sedan segment. The new car is allegedly a twin of the Toyota Vios which we all know from the BlueBird taxis in a not so distance past. So some more badge engineering.

Mitsubishi
The manufacturer showed the XFC prototype in a car expo in Vietnam. It should make its way to Indonesia and the model is likely to fill the space above the Xpander and below the Pajero Sport. So you could consider it a bit the successor of the Outlander Sport (ASX).

Suzuki
The XL7, the SUV / cross version of the Ertiga, will also become available in a hybrid version.

Nissan
In Thailand the sales of the previous X-Trail has already been halted, but there’s no news yet about the new version for Indonesia. I can’t imagine someone buying the existing model anymore unless they offer huge discounts.

 

[jstar]

Another trend is the usage of very small cars: Daihatsu-Ayla / Toyota-Agya.

We can expect new Toyota Agya very soon. The second generation Toyota Agya should arrive during the first half of 2023. The model is almost 10 years old and has not received any significant changes besides two small facelifts, so it’s about time.

The engine will be changed to the same as the one in the Raize so a 3-cylinder 1,200cc version. There could also be a 1,000cc turbo version as a 3-cylinder. It uses a CVT which is also similar to the Raize.

Just like the Ayla name, Agya is derived from Sanskrit. Not because Toyota and Daihatsu are nationalistic but to comply with the KBH2 tax exemption program from the Indonesian government for locally assembled small cars. A bit like the KEI initiative in Japan. The program required a name for the cars which was “inspired by Indonesia”

 

[Vulgarian]

The program required a name for the cars which was “inspired by Indonesia”

I've got my eye on the Toyota Macet and the Daihatsu Banjir...

 

[Helpful Herbert]

Maybe the Honda Uang Rokok, the Suzuki Indomie Goreng and the Nissan Hello Mister

 

[john madden]

Mitsubishi Nanti Aja

 

[jstar]

Taking about car model names: Toyota has replaced the ever so popular TRD Sportivo term by GR Sport. A small disaster for all those people who have the TRD nomenclature on their Rush, Avanza, Innova or Fortuner but great for the (business of the) sticker suppliers.

That was for the ‘sporty’ versions. Well not really since in most cases there is no tuning or so involved. But let’s face it, an AMG, M or S-line option for the three premium Germans, is also cosmetics only.

For the more luxurious variants Toyota seems to have come up with the name Modellista. No, it’s not April 1. It is already available on the Innova Zenix and in the future it could be applied to various other MPVs such as Veloz Modellista, Alphard Modellista, and even a Calya Modellista.

Let’s hope that will not happen.

 

[Hawk256]

Taking about car model names: Toyota has replaced the ever so popular TRD Sportivo term by GR Sport. A small disaster for all those people who have the TRD nomenclature on their Rush, Avanza, Innova or Fortuner but great for the (business of the) sticker suppliers.

I had a friend in the US bought a new Toyota and had the dealer remove the TRD markings. Didn't want a TuRD.

 

[Wisnu]

I hope Toyota Prius+ will enter Indonesia. I'll be in the market for a 7 seater SUV PHEV once return to RI in 2024. I'm big fans of Peugeot - used to have 504, 405, 306, and 406 before we left Indonesia in 2005. Not sure the 5008 hybrid will enter Indonesia at that time. The other choice would be Hyundai Santa Fe or Kia sorento.

 

[jstar]

a 7 seater SUV PHEV

Currently only the Mitsubishi Outlander fits that profile. The current car is already outdated, there is a new model but not (yet) available in Indonesia.

The specs on that new model are quite interesting. The front electric motor delivers 116 hp instead of 82 hp in the plug-in Outlander, while the rear one delivers 136 hp instead of 90 hp. Also interesting is the battery pack, which is 20 kWh in that new Outlander PHEV and gives the car an electric range of 87 kilometers which is impressive.

A Santa Fe is only available in full ICE (gasoline and diesel) versions. It seems a bit that Hyundai skips the in between (P)HEV steps in Indonesia and goes for the full blown BEV right away. The Ioniq 5 is rather popular.

An alternative could be the new X-Trail with the ePower solution.

Toyota Prius+

I’m not so sure there will be a larger plus version of the new Prius. It’s lower already than the previous series. It has both a hybrid and a plug-in hybrid version, in most European countries only the latter will be available. I would count more on the RAV4 for Indonesia but Toyota did not decide yet what to do with that one. Perhaps the pricing would interfere with the Fortuner.

The Peugeot 5008 is extremely expensive here. And they only sell the previous (1.6 liter and diesel) model year 2021 version.

 

[Banana72]

Still got my 12 year old Innova (Diesel) and slowly wanting to let it go finally and find a replacement. Originally looked at xpander since a couple years ago, but Pandemic hit so was saving my money and it had to take care of other stuff, etc. Last week went to a mall and there were a few cars on display (Creta, Xpander Crosss, WRV and XL-7). Tried Creta...it was nice, particularly the front visibility. Price for the top of the line was a bit high for my budget (380 mill and the lowest automatic model was more budget friendly at around 320 pre-discount), went and tried Xpander Cross...it felt a bit too high and felt a bit bulky (I wanted an SUV that's not too compact, but somewhat slightly shorter than my Innova...for easier parking). WRV was small....and it was actually a step below HRV. I wanted to try the XL-7 but she-boss is not a Suzuki fan (just like most Indonesian being Toyota/Honda fanatics) gave me the "Oh really? You wanna consider Suzuki?" After 2-3 'gentle yet repeated' reasons to consider other cars, one is smart enough to get the hint. Was considering Toyota Rush (again she-boss for some personal reason said...better skip). I have not tried the 2021 new Avanza...but review looked great (and wife enjoyed it while she was driving it in Bali)...again, she wanted me to stay with the mid-upper category. I haven't looked at an old (maybe 4-5 year old) CRV....last time I drove a CRV it was a 2009 model, I would think the new one handles way better...we'll see if I can get it for a reasonable price (under or closer to 300 mill..). New Creta? Five year old CRV?

 

[jstar]

New Creta? Five year old CRV?

The ‘problem’ is that the current CR-V here will be the old/previous CR-V in no time.

If I read your (and your wife’s) demands, it seems a 7-seater is not absolutely necessary, right? Then a Creta is definitely not a bad choice (although I think the rear is ‘butt’ ugly). But why not consider the (relatively new) HR-V with CVT? I have driven one and was rather impressed, esp. with the interior quality. Prices start at 375 juta.

And if you want to go somewhat cheaper, the new BR-V. This ‘Car of the year 2022’ looks much better than its predecessor, is spacious, a Honda (happy wife happy life) and available for 312 juta with a CVT. It beats the Xpander/Livina combo which are not bad cars. A Creta in an automatic version, what Hyundai calls IVT, is already 333 juta for the Trend version.

NB: The (small) Suzuki’s have the least issues and problems of all brands in Europe. Obviously they don’t sell the Ertiga or XL-7 there. If I had the spare cash I would take the Jimny now anytime. (It will become available in 5 doors also.)

 

[Hawk256]

New Creta? Five year old CRV?

If you are wiling to look at used and want a BR-V, I have one for a good price in the classified section. 42,000 km. We bought it new.

 

[jstar]

return to RI in 2024…….The other choice would be Hyundai Santa Fe

It is very probable there will be a completely new model by then, they are already testing the 5th generation of the Santa Fe.

The weird thing is that the previous 2020 facelift included a completely new platform. Which was optimized for (plug in) hybrid solutions. So that might stay the same now.