Indonesia set to introduce strict new law banning sex outside of marriage

[Dan]

No matter how the law is applied and whatever the workarounds are, the fact is that the word is now out in Europe, the US, Australia etc that sex before marriage even for tourists is punishable with a prison sentence in Indonesia.

The consequence is that lots of people will be put off coming to Indonesia for a holiday now.

Indonesia has shot itself in the foot with this move. An alcohol ban hasn't been mentioned but may be coming next.

There is no et cetera, you already listed the only regions of the world where press and outrage culture coalesce into white knighting. Indonesia's regional neighbors, and wider Asia, won't be batting an eye.

Most of us would agree that China's government is far more repressive than Indonesia's. That hasn't stopped us all from doing business with China, buying their products, or visiting them. People have short memories, and if they're incensed now they'll find out about something more outrageous to their sensibilities next week.

 

[ChrisTex]

Can you explain what you mean exactly? See what happening? What would need to be approved by several ministries and the president? The new Criminal Code law? This aspect of the new Criminal Code law? My understanding is that it has now already been ratified into law. Is that a process you expect to be reversed somehow? Or is the process not final yet? Or do you expect it not to be acted upon, at least in most parts of the country?

If you had read the original post and the thread, you would see what I mean and what needed to be approved. When I posted my comment, it was before the news that it had already gone through the channels and been passed.

 

[BliGundul]

Shouldn't such personal matters between consenting adults,
discreetly be treated as such, & self policed...No harm, no foul?

 

[fastpitch17]

Wonder how many of those, get married or be reported, will be coming down the road when this takes effect?

 

[fastpitch17]

Shouldn't such personal matters between consenting adults,
discreetly be treated as such, & self policed...No harm, no foul?

Ha, wouldn't that be something? Putting that in place would remove the control over the populace that some groups work hard to maintain.

 

[fastpitch17]

No matter how the law is applied and whatever the workarounds are, the fact is that the word is now out in Europe, the US, Australia etc that sex before marriage even for tourists is punishable with a prison sentence in Indonesia.

The consequence is that lots of people will be put off coming to Indonesia for a holiday now.

Indonesia has shot itself in the foot with this move. An alcohol ban hasn't been mentioned but may be coming next.

I have to agree. The headlines are screaming No Sex Between Couples or Face Prison. The articles may state in them what the reporting requirements are but the vast majority will only see the headline. It won't only be tourist couples because of their sexual limits, it will also be others who will see Indonesia as a repressive state following one particular religion in a radical form.

Like many laws Indonesia passes, it's done and then it's discussed.

 

[Helpful Herbert]

Also, it doesn't come in until 2025, and by that time everyone including Bali tourists will have forgotten about it. In the meantime, the Western press uses it as a cynical way of boosting their clicks, for example:

‘A little nerve-racking’: worry and scepticism in Bali over ban on sex outside marriage

Residents voice concerns over whether changes to Indonesia’s criminal code will hit the island’s vital tourism sector

www.theguardian.com

 

[fastpitch17]

Also, it doesn't come in until 2025, and by that time everyone including Bali tourists will have forgotten about it. In the meantime, the Western press uses it as a cynical way of boosting their clicks, for example:

‘A little nerve-racking’: worry and scepticism in Bali over ban on sex outside marriage

Residents voice concerns over whether changes to Indonesia’s criminal code will hit the island’s vital tourism sector

www.theguardian.com

I think by then, 2025 people will be reminded and local media run with it coming into effect. News wires will pick it up and it will again go international with the same headlines as now. In the mean time, people seem to be getting the impression that the prosecution of sex between non married couples is already in effect.

 

[centurion]

Also, the neighboring countries that are competitors in tourism could underline in their propaganda that sex is a problematic issue in Indonesia.

 

[fastpitch17]

Of course, there is a lot more to this new law. Not much for the good and heavily Islamist leaning.

Human Rights Watch: New Criminal Code Harmful to Women, Minorities, Free Speech

Articles in new criminal code violate rights of women, religious minorities, LGBT people & undermine rights to speech freedom, says Human Rights Watch

en.tempo.co

 

[Jaime C]

Try and check in to a hotel in Vietnam even now with someone you are not married to and you will be rejected, even in 5 star hotels.

I’ve never been asked for marriage documents when checking in to hotels in Vietnam. Not at a Park Hyatt, Hyatt Regency or standard 3 star hotel.

 

[Helpful Herbert]

Of course, there is a lot more to this new law. Not much for the good and heavily Islamist leaning.

Human Rights Watch: New Criminal Code Harmful to Women, Minorities, Free Speech

Articles in new criminal code violate rights of women, religious minorities, LGBT people & undermine rights to speech freedom, says Human Rights Watch

en.tempo.co

It makes a very good point that it immediately criminalises the millions of Islamic couples who went through a nikah siri ceremony but are not married in the eyes of the law facepalm

 

[HappyMan]

I've never had anyone ask for a marriage certificate when checking into a hotel in any country except for when I asked for honeymoon rates.
I know zero Americans who have a picture of their marriage certificate with them at all times.

 

[pantaiema]

What about Bali Cowboys ???

 

[pantaiema]

I've never had anyone ask for a marriage certificate when checking into a hotel in any country except for when I asked for honeymoon rates.
I know zero Americans who have a picture of their marriage certificate with them at all times.

Well, they could make it difficult by not accepting the scan copy, pictures but the original certificate. Also keep in mind they still within their right to ask this.

Another possibility is an extortion by a so called family/relative or police with threats of prosecution if they don't pay up. It will not just effect on male but also female.

Indonesian family will be effected. Say they have a daughter who has a boyfriend they do not like so the parent want them to break up her with her boyfriend. If she refuses, the parent then could then use this law to report both daughter and her boyfriend to the police.
Not possible, where in other countries, even in the developed countries some parents are even killed their own children for embarrassing family.

The point here is that the law is there and if you break it you are committing a crime. Whether it will be fully enforced or not you will never know.

Another issue here is the travel warning from the authority. DFAT is just one of many possible examples. Australia is on of the catchment area for tourism in Indonesia.

Dfat updates travel advice for Indonesia: how will Australian tourists be affected by laws banning sex outside marriage?

Planning a Bali holiday? Here’s what we know about the new laws and what they mean for travellers and the LGBTQI+ community

www.theguardian.com

DFAT issues official travel warning for Aussies going to Indonesia

Thinking of travelling to Bali for your next holiday? Consider yourself warned.

www.margaretrivermail.com.au

 

[ukcouple]

.... The point here is that the law is there and if you break it you are committing a crime. Whether it will be fully enforced or not you will never know......

That's exactly right.

The bottom line is that sex outside of marriage is now ILLEGAL in Indonesia and punishable by a year in prison.

The fact that (at present) it can only be reported by a family member misses the point. (That could easily change to include other aggrieved or malicious people and eventually probably will.)

 

[Dan]

Dfat updates travel advice for Indonesia: how will Australian tourists be affected by laws banning sex outside marriage?

Planning a Bali holiday? Here’s what we know about the new laws and what they mean for travellers and the LGBTQI+ community

www.theguardian.com

The Guardian's article is demonstrative of my critique of white reactions to the law. What is important to the readership of the Guardian, apparently, is that Australian tourists may or may not be inconvenienced/shook down. What is also important is to ensure that a protected class in their hierarchy of oppression, homosexuals, are not targeted.

That the Indonesian people will be subject to increasingly autocratic controls on demonstrations, criticism of the government, whatever the government deems to be "fake news", participation in separatist causes, and alleged blasphemous speech is all secondary.

What really matters is that white people can get laid without problems, and that they can indulge in sanctimonious finger wagging regarding Indonesia's policies.

 

[gemima]

The Guardian's article is demonstrative of my critique of white reactions to the law. What is important to the readership of the Guardian, apparently, is that Australian tourists may or may not be inconvenienced/shook down. What is also important is to ensure that a protected class in their hierarchy of oppression, homosexuals, are not targeted.

That the Indonesian people will be subject to increasingly autocratic controls on demonstrations, criticism of the government, whatever the government deems to be "fake news", participation in separatist causes, and alleged blasphemous speech is all secondary.

What really matters is that white people can get laid without problems, and that they can indulge in sanctimonious finger wagging regarding Indonesia's policies.

I feel you are cherry-picking here - yes, the guardian has written some pieces from the point of view of foreigners who want to visit here. Of course they should do this. They aren't an Indonesian paper and potential visitors want to know about it.

They have also written other more thoughtful pieces that look at the impacts of the new criminal code on locals:

Indonesia’s sex ‘morality’ laws are just one part of a broader, chilling crackdown on dissent

Analysis: the moralistic aspects of the new criminal code risk obscuring wider concerns about a stifling of protest and criticism of the state

www.theguardian.com

I didnt look particularly hard for this article - there will surely be more in the coming days as I know they are actively speaking to locals to gauge opinions for upcoming articles.

 

[ukcouple]

I don't know about cherry picking but the guy is clearly a racist.

Substitute "white people" with black, brown, Indian, Arab or Chinese and he would be banned.

 

[Dan]

I don't know about cherry picking but the guy is clearly a racist.

Substitute "white people" with black, brown, Indian, Arab or Chinese and he would be banned.

To qualify as being racist, I'd have to denigrate my co-ethnics. I mentioned white people twice in that comment. The first time in reference to the opinions of white people, which is normally couched in the clumsy term "Western". The second time in reference to the perceived priorities of "Western" (does it make you feel any better if I call us occidental?) people in relation to their feelings on the so-called tertiary world.

I mean, I'm sorry you're butt hurt that I called it out that way. I'm sorry that you apparently cannot handle me referencing my own race in terms that are critical of how media outlets directed to us as a population glance over far more important issues.

Your priorities are apparently fixated on getting laid. My priorities are fixated on whether or not my family members have their village razed by TNI. We aren't the same. Deal with it.