War

[Nimbus]

Last time Tibet was a "country" was around 1206. It was a kingdom at the time and was later conquered by the Mongols, it became Chinese territory since then. Then of course there was that one time when they declared independence in the midst of the Chinese Civil War, but no country recognized them as such, not even the League of Nations or the UN.

Therefore, how can it be an invasion when Tibet was never recognized as a country?

Indonesia was not recognized as a country, in 1945 technically it belonged to the Dutch. It didn’t prevent us from declaring independence.

USA was a colony of UK, and there was a war when it declared independence.

Tibet has a right to be independent, and China crushed it by force. This explains why you think Russia is justified in invading Ukraine, because you don’t think Ukraine has a right to be independent.

Despite all the rhetoric, China is just another imperialist.

 

[Bad_azz]

Indonesia is still being remarkably quiet on all things Russian war against Ukraine- compare with say Japan, Australia, & other countries reasonably far from Russia.
I had expected the government to be pushed into having a stronger stance with them holding the G20 banner for the year.
Will refugees be brought here?
What is RI doing to support Ukr? Are they supporting Rus?
I have had a long conversation with 'someone', he stated that RI hasn't any experience in such matters so is afraid to step into the mix. (I have my own thoughts on that but perhaps best i don't voice them?)
How much Russian money is involved in RI politics & infrastructure? Or is it China we as a country are wary of?

I am just really curious about all this.

 

[atlantis]

Does that mean you will allow me to post links to Russian or Chinese media?

Please re-read this post: https://www.expatindo.org/community/threads/war.6514/page-10#post-84756

"as long as they are sustained by reliable verified sources".
"I would prefer that posters develop their own opinion rather than they post links, videos, articles with a very limited personal elaboration. "

Haze Fan, a chinese journalist working for Bloomberg has been arrested late 2020 on "suspicion of national security law violations.". She is still detained to this day, without having been charged or tried..
Unfortunately she is only one of the many journalists who get in trouble for trying to do their job. Fifty journalists were held in jail in China in 2021, according to data from the U.S. advocacy group Committee to Protect Journalists. It places China at the top of CPJ’s ranking of countries with journalists in jail for the second year in a row. Russia had 14 journalists in jail in 2021. Marina Ovsyannikova who dared to express an opinion different from the government's recently got in trouble for us to remember it. Thankfully she's been fined and not jailed.

So considering the above and since only state controlled medias or medias parroting the government are allowed in China and to a certain extend in Russia, the chances that anything qualifies to be an independent and reliable source of information is slim.

But more importantly I would like you to consider the second quote from my post. We (the mod team who are the owner of this forum and website) didn't create Expatindo to be a tribune for any form of propaganda. We've created it to be informative to the Expat community on topics concerning Indonesia and this is something any user should keep in mind when s/he posts.

Personally, despite being very much a man of the 20th century, I am not totally computer illiterate. Like probably anyone in our community I have a few google skills. So really if I want to have only links to articles from anywhere in the world, which is unfortunately often what you propose us, I can do it myself and don't need you. It's absolutely pointless and imho a waste of bandwidth to inundate the forum with links and videos without very little, if anything, coming from you.

 

[Nimbus]

Indonesia is still being remarkably quiet on all things Russian war against Ukraine- compare with say Japan, Australia, & other countries reasonably far from Russia.
I had expected the government to be pushed into having a stronger stance with them holding the G20 banner for the year.
Will refugees be brought here?
What is RI doing to support Ukr? Are they supporting Rus?
I have had a long conversation with 'someone', he stated that RI hasn't any experience in such matters so is afraid to step into the mix. (I have my own thoughts on that but perhaps best i don't voice them?)
How much Russian money is involved in RI politics & infrastructure? Or is it China we as a country are wary of?

I am just really curious about all this.

Here’s a decent write up about the subject. I don’t agree with it entirely, but it’s a fair analysis.

Why do so many Indonesians back Russia’s invasion of Ukraine? - Indonesia at Melbourne

Indonesian governments and society have historically supported victims of aggression and conflict, so why do so many Indonesians, especially online, seem to support the Russian invasion?

indonesiaatmelbourne.unimelb.edu.au

 

[atlantis]

Here’s a decent write up about the subject. I don’t agree with it entirely, but it’s a fair analysis.

By my side of the bush there is no anti-American or anti-western attitude so this would definitely not be the factor, but the preference for “strong” leaders is defo what would drive Manadonese to support Putin rather than Zelenskyy.

But to be honest, where I live and at all social level, the huge majority, just don't give a flying toss about it.

 

[Bad_azz]

Here’s a decent write up about the subject. I don’t agree with it entirely, but it’s a fair analysis.

Why do so many Indonesians back Russia’s invasion of Ukraine? - Indonesia at Melbourne

Indonesian governments and society have historically supported victims of aggression and conflict, so why do so many Indonesians, especially online, seem to support the Russian invasion?

indonesiaatmelbourne.unimelb.edu.au

My husband (a few weeks ago) was parroting Rus propaganda, I decided to educate him (cheaper than divorce).
I was more curious as to where he was getting his info, "online" he said. *Edit- yes hubby did bring Palestine up too.
So now I make a point of making him watch video clips of hospitals being bombed, of children being rushed to medical aid and the animals in the zoos... (he is a sucker for animals & anyone bombing a zoo is beyond outrageous to him- that is the one that got the point across I think).

 

[Nimbus]

By my side of the bush there is no anti-American or anti-western attitude so this would definitely not be the factor, but the preference for “strong” leaders is defo what would drive Manadonese to support Putin rather than Zelenskyy.

But to be honest, where I live and at all social level, the huge majority, just don't give a flying toss about it.

Yeah, anti-American sentiment exists in certain circles for sure, but not universal.

 

[Nimbus]

My husband (a few weeks ago) was parroting Rus propaganda, I decided to educate him (cheaper than divorce).
I was more curious as to where he was getting his info, "online" he said. *Edit- yes hubby did bring Palestine up too.
So now I make a point of making him watch video clips of hospitals being bombed, of children being rushed to medical aid and the animals in the zoos... (he is a sucker for animals & anyone bombing a zoo is beyond outrageous to him- that is the one that got the point across I think).

If he’s like a lot of Indonesians, mostly from Whatsapp groups, FB, and Instagram. Those media are rife with disinformation.

 

[Bad_azz]

If he’s like a lot of Indonesians, mostly from Whatsapp groups, FB, and Instagram. Those media are rife with disinformation.

Sadly yes, he is much happier with IG & puppy videos than RL events .

 

[Bad_azz]

Just reading that there seems to be a potential cyber security threat looming- hypothetical(?) at this stage- however, are you prepared at least a little bit to live w/out power?
Here in RI mati lampu is a regular thing & I know I can go a good long while without power (I have my own water source and gas cooker etc & grow some of my own food) people in other countries perhaps less so?
* Maybe this explains RI's reticence to get too actively involved in Rus/Ukr ? They want to not be targeted.

 

[Dave70]

Tibet has a right to be independent, and China crushed it by force. This explains why you think Russia is justified in invading Ukraine, because you don’t think Ukraine has a right to be independent.

That's wrong, very wrong. I never said anything like that. I have already explained the reasons why the war happened in my previous comments.

 

[ChrisTex]

Not only personal bias, ever heard of Presstitutes and the CIA controlling the narrative?

 

[Dave70]

A Guide to Mainstream Media ‘Fake News’ War Propaganda

As mainstream media pundits, government officials and Silicon Valley technocrats continue the alarmist crusade over the perceived scourge of ‘fake news’ circulating on social media, their misplaced obsession belies the fact that the government-media complex has long been waging its own private disinformation war, against the global public.

As the establishment continues its attempt to discredit alternative sources of information through its fake news faux crisis, it’s clear that some corporate media moguls would like to turn back the clock – back to the days when a handful of powerful institutions enjoyed a complete monopoly over the production of news and dissemination of information. For at least the last century and half, this tightly-controlled information syndicate has been able to manufacture a type of consensus reality. By channeling public opinion in this way, the establishment has used the mainstream press to facilitate a number of engineered outcomes – including war.

More than ever, it’s important to highlight how for many decades, these same media organizations, including the most respected brands in western mainstream media, have been the driving force behind some of most deceptive reporting and militaristic propaganda campaigns which have enabled the conditions for violent conflict worldwide. These acts of media malice have contributed to the unnecessary deaths of countless innocent people.

Undoubtedly, many who work in the media will not see it that way, but history speaks for itself.

Here are but a few of the greatest war propaganda deceptions of all-time – brought to you by the establishment’s own mainstream media. Here are the real consequences of fake news…

A Guide to Mainstream Media 'Fake News' War Propaganda - 21st Century Wire

Patrick Henningsen | This practice of collusion between the government and corporate media has enabled most major global conflicts which the US and its allies participated in over the century.

21stcenturywire.com

 

[Nimbus]

That's wrong, very wrong. I never said anything like that. I have already explained the reasons why the war happened in my previous comments.

It’s wrong wanting to be independent? Ok.

 

[Nimbus]

A Guide to Mainstream Media ‘Fake News’ War Propaganda

As mainstream media pundits, government officials and Silicon Valley technocrats continue the alarmist crusade over the perceived scourge of ‘fake news’ circulating on social media, their misplaced obsession belies the fact that the government-media complex has long been waging its own private disinformation war, against the global public.

As the establishment continues its attempt to discredit alternative sources of information through its fake news faux crisis, it’s clear that some corporate media moguls would like to turn back the clock – back to the days when a handful of powerful institutions enjoyed a complete monopoly over the production of news and dissemination of information. For at least the last century and half, this tightly-controlled information syndicate has been able to manufacture a type of consensus reality. By channeling public opinion in this way, the establishment has used the mainstream press to facilitate a number of engineered outcomes – including war.

More than ever, it’s important to highlight how for many decades, these same media organizations, including the most respected brands in western mainstream media, have been the driving force behind some of most deceptive reporting and militaristic propaganda campaigns which have enabled the conditions for violent conflict worldwide. These acts of media malice have contributed to the unnecessary deaths of countless innocent people.

Undoubtedly, many who work in the media will not see it that way, but history speaks for itself.

Here are but a few of the greatest war propaganda deceptions of all-time – brought to you by the establishment’s own mainstream media. Here are the real consequences of fake news…

A Guide to Mainstream Media 'Fake News' War Propaganda - 21st Century Wire

Patrick Henningsen | This practice of collusion between the government and corporate media has enabled most major global conflicts which the US and its allies participated in over the century.

21stcenturywire.com

Why do you keep dragging in garbage like this? You should know better than relying on an antivaxxer.

Oh wait, China is anti western vaccine, but mandates its own vaccine.

 

[Dave70]

It’s wrong wanting to be independent? Ok.

Are you playing dumb? I replied to your comments in BOLD text.

 

[Dave70]

Israel stunned by Ukrainian neo-Nazis​

by Thierry Meyssan

The state-organized presence of neo-Nazis within the Ukrainian army is not anecdotal, even if it is not possible to quantify it in a certain way. On the other hand, it is easy to count their victims. In general indifference, they have killed 14,000 Ukrainians in eight years. This situation is one of the causes of the Russian military intervention in Ukraine. Israel is confronted for the first time with what it could never have imagined: the support of its US protector to its historical enemy, Nazism.

Israel stunned by Ukrainian neo-Nazis, by Thierry Meyssan

The state-organized presence of neo-Nazis within the Ukrainian army is not anecdotal, even if it is not possible to quantify it in a certain way. On the other hand, it is easy to count their victims. In general indifference, they have killed 14,000 Ukrainians in eight years. This situation is...

www.voltairenet.org

 

[Nimbus]

Israel stunned by Ukrainian neo-Nazis​

by Thierry Meyssan

The state-organized presence of neo-Nazis within the Ukrainian army is not anecdotal, even if it is not possible to quantify it in a certain way. On the other hand, it is easy to count their victims. In general indifference, they have killed 14,000 Ukrainians in eight years. This situation is one of the causes of the Russian military intervention in Ukraine. Israel is confronted for the first time with what it could never have imagined: the support of its US protector to its historical enemy, Nazism.

Israel stunned by Ukrainian neo-Nazis, by Thierry Meyssan

The state-organized presence of neo-Nazis within the Ukrainian army is not anecdotal, even if it is not possible to quantify it in a certain way. On the other hand, it is easy to count their victims. In general indifference, they have killed 14,000 Ukrainians in eight years. This situation is...

www.voltairenet.org

You know, just because it’s written in English doesn’t make it valid. It’s hilarious to see you dragging in all sorts of random crackpots to shore up your points.

 

[Nimbus]

Are you playing dumb? I replied to your comments in BOLD text.

Ooh. So you think typing it in bold makes it automatically valid.

 

[Nimbus]

Just reading that there seems to be a potential cyber security threat looming- hypothetical(?) at this stage- however, are you prepared at least a little bit to live w/out power?
Here in RI mati lampu is a regular thing & I know I can go a good long while without power (I have my own water source and gas cooker etc & grow some of my own food) people in other countries perhaps less so?
* Maybe this explains RI's reticence to get too actively involved in Rus/Ukr ? They want to not be targeted.

I hope by now they have enough safeguards in place to minimize the effect of cyber attacks. You can’t fully prevent it, but you can put enough backups in place so you can recover in hours. Spring is finally here, so having electricity for heating is not vital.