Ministry of Agriculture Announces Intention To Ban Dog Meat Trade

[Pak Asam Manis]

I have often used violence in retaliation of a bad deed. I am not proud of it but violence is a part of me. However, I would never talk about killing someone. These are not light words and should be used with caution, imho.

I do not have a problem to tell someone what I will or would do, IF a certain situation or circumstance would be met. As you have surely noticed, I said "you or ANYONE" and of course, there are plenty who may be more likely to be the survivor in such an encounter, which isn't the point. In any case, probably just one of many differences between us.

I agree that the probability of such a situation occurring would be remote, not only for the reasons you mentioned but also because I have not kept any dogs since I started working overseas exactly eight years ago, and am not likely to have any in the near future. Though it is a situation not to my liking, it is to that of my wife and additionally, there is no permanent and stable home in which to keep one. I kept a cat for few months in China in 2011, and we had a couple tries with same species in Medan, with unfortunate results both times.

 

[Pak Asam Manis]

@Pak Asam Manis,
On your video of the Tomohon market you see the trading place for Rat, Ular Patola, Dog Meat, Paniki, Burung Weris and pork. Surprisingly you don't see the kambing and sapi section which are no better in terms of higiene and humanity.

It animals are killed and butchered in a way which is not halal, the meat is not fit for consumption by Muslim and should not under any circumstance be sold as halal. If you have some point to make by mentioning this, I have no idea what it may be.

I would never in a million thousand years, buy or consume anything "produced" or sold in such a place.

 

[atlantis]

In any case, probably just one of many differences between us.

Oh ya. A HUGE difference. I would never stipulate that I would kill ANYONE. As I said, these are not light words and I personally have enough respect for HUMAN life not to say it or even think I may premeditate to ever do it in a circumstance where my life isn't in danger.

Also, I don't doubt a minute that you "do not have a problem to tell someone what (you) will or would do, IF a certain situation or circumstance would be met", especially when no-one has even remotely mentioned that they would steal and kill your dog. Your statement was odd in this way too. The topic was about the trading of dog meat and the way they are butchered. For your information, most dog traded on the market are raised and sold by their "owners".

 

[Pak Asam Manis]

Because that will counter their own argument so gets left out.

You can see my answer to his post, no? In any case I had nothing to do with the making of the video, so I did not leave anything "out".

 

[Pak Asam Manis]

Oh ya. A HUGE difference. I would never stipulate that I would kill ANYONE. As I said, these are not light words and I personally have enough respect for HUMAN life not to say it or even think I may premeditate to ever do it in a circumstance where my life isn't in danger.

Okay, so let's make it crystal clear, then. I did not in any way intend to write or post those words "lightly". I hope that makes it clear enough.

If you think a dog and a cat is same as a cow or a pig or a chicken, someone else may think a human is the same as a dog or a cat, et cetera. Fair is fair, right? After all, in the Darwinist, biological sense at the least, we are all animals, no doubt about it.

 

[atlantis]

It animals are killed and butchered in a way which is not halal, the meat is not fit for consumption by Muslim and should not under any circumstance be sold as halal.

Have you ever seen a piece of meat coming out of a North Sulawesi pasar with an halal and a veterinary certification? I have not, nor I heard any seller swearing that his meat is/was halal.It's not even the point Pak Asam Manis. The point is that ANY meat in the North Sulawesi pasar is killed, butchered and sold in conditions where humanity and higiene is on the leave.

As you said, you "had nothing to do with the making of the video", but you also know very little of the trade and conditions in our markets. Making a video of the trading place for beef, kambing or any other meat would be equally appalling.

If you want to ban or regulate (read: enforce the regulation) their trade, just do it. But don't be hypocrite and pick some without considering the others.

Edit: On the halal thing: if a Muslim in Manado wants real halal meat, be they chicken, beef or goat, he MUST buy it from any of the swalayan which sells halal meat, imported from Jawa, with the proper certification. Most Muslim I know here wouldn't care. They would buy from the market their meat which is "presumably" halal, but which in fact is most of the time not. Perhaps some wouldn't recognize them as "true" Muslim, however they identify themselves as such.

 

[Pak Asam Manis]

The point is that ANY meat in the North Sulawesi pasar is killed, butchered and sold in conditions where humanity and higiene is on the leave.

As you said, you "had nothing to do with the making of the video", but you also know very little of the trade and conditions in our markets. Making a video of the trading place for beef, kambing or any other meat would be equally appalling.

Oh, I see. Well, that makes everything just peachy ducky and copacetic, then.

If I had only thought to think that they are abusing all the animals EQUALLY, I would never have started a kerfuffle by posting the link in the first place. "Every play a foul, no problem."

Although you consistently sound (or rather, read) as a person of some intelligence, education and maturity, at times like this I get a subtle yet distinct impression that something is missing or just a little "off" in the way you think, or perhaps more punctually to the way you seem to feel. But to each his own ...

Gotta go rope some dogies ...

 

[atlantis]

...
Gotta go rope some dogies ...

Good. It will keep you busy and off the keyboard.

 

[Pak Asam Manis]

If it will keep me from a discussion with Stone Cold Steve Austin transmogrified with Mister Spock becomes an immigrant fishmonger in Manado, it will be a great service to me, I can tell you.

 

[Anglian]

It reminds me, my first morning in pork free Saudi Arabia, I go down to breakfast and there is to my surprise a most delicious smell of bacon, on the self service tray is this huge pile of bacon, I take a very generous helping, sit down, take one mouthful, it is disgusting, breakfast totally spoilt, what the hell is this crap, I ask my new chum what’s this stuff, Beef Bacon, never heard of it before, totally avoided since, why anyone would make something that smells and has some resemblance to bacon rather than eat the real stuff, I put beef bacon in the same class as alcohol free beer, ridiculous

 

[Euc-]

It reminds me, my first morning in pork free Saudi Arabia, I go down to breakfast and there is to my surprise a most delicious smell of bacon, on the self service tray is this huge pile of bacon, I take a very generous helping, sit down, take one mouthful, it is disgusting, breakfast totally spoilt, what the hell is this crap, I ask my new chum what’s this stuff, Beef Bacon, never heard of it before, totally avoided since, why anyone would make something that smells and has some resemblance to bacon rather than eat the real stuff, I put beef bacon in the same class as alcohol free beer, ridiculous

Btw if you think beef bacon is bad, you should try "turkey bacon".

 

[atlantis]

Btw if you think beef bacon is bad, you should try "turkey bacon".

Do you have a video on how they kill and butcher the turkeys, Euc? Perhaps we can push for a ban of that stuff?

I have an history with this animal dating back to my childhood so if I can piss off turkey meat lover, I am ready to launch a campaign on sosmed.

 

[Anglian]

For a couple of christmass past, the turkeys had no legs so I kidded my wife who had never seen a turkey befor they were bred like that, mind she soon twigged I was teasing, she had a sense of humour failure, which earned me a clip round the ear

 

[waarmstrong]

Btw if you think beef bacon is bad, you should try "turkey bacon".

Actually, to my tastes, turkey bacon is not bad if prepared properly. Its also a healthier choice. Its a poor mimic of pork bacon, I agree, but if you approach it as a breakfast dish in its own right, its acceptable. If I opt for beef to round out my breakfast, steak and eggs or corned beef hash is my choice. And tastier than bacon, IMHO.

 

[Pak Asam Manis]

(ahem) I don't know if you children realize this, but just IN CASE there are actually more than about 12 people reading and perhaps occasionally posting in this joint (which seems pretty unlikely, from the brief look-in I've had in the past few days ) ....

... there could be some actual adults among them who might look on your reactions to this topic with some shock and disfavor.

You know, assuming expats living in Indonesia are not generally the same sort of loutish, indifferent types as yourselves, but instead reasonable, thoughtful, compassionate human beings who might, like myself, feel disgusted and saddened by the way dogs, yes AND other animals, are treated, killed and butchered in Indonesia, Vietnam, Cambodia, China, Korea and other Asian countries. And there might even be a few who, like me, are quite bold enough to speak up about it.

The information presented in my link. I remind you, is about INDONESIAN officials having made the decision that a ban on dog meat trade is appropriate and necessary, not outsiders. They may be outsiders to the relatively small populations in the country which engage in the production and consumption of dogs, true, but they are not outsiders to the majority, and outside of those areas there is probably more support among Indonesians for a ban than you may think.

Now think about this, Atlantis: presumably you have some level of interest in attracting more readers and active members to this site (although if there have been efforts to do so, I can't see it as there seem to be far fewer active members than when the site was started two years ago (!)) Are you sure that seeing a thread with reactions like you lot have presented to this topic is the best way to win over and attract that wider audience?

 

[waarmstrong]

I think the original concept for this meeting place was the "Expat Meat Eaters of Indonesia Forum" but that was too long to fit on the marquee.

 

[waarmstrong]

Shoot the messenger.

 

[Euc-]

Oh wow.

Some Indonesian officials have also deemed an Alcohol ban "appropriate and necessary". What on earth is your point? Because an Indonesian official said it it must be right? Indonesian "officials" have recently stopped vaccinations of children because they are not "Halal certified"...

They may be outsiders to the relatively small populations in the country which engage in the production and consumption of dogs, true, but they are not outsiders to the majority, and outside of those areas there is probably more support among Indonesians for a ban than you may think.

If we follow your flawed Majority wins logic:

Majority of Indonesia does not drink (or at least is not supposed to drink...) alcohol, so away with that.
Majority of the world eats meat so fuck the vegans and vegetarians.
Majority religion of the world is Christianity so lets ban .........

There are people that do things differently, let them do it.

Your kind of self-righteousness, holier-than-thou attitude is exactly what is wrong with the world these days. You are now even advocating further oppression of minorities in a country that already has a very checkered passed when it comes to that and then turn it around and make us the bad guys?

 

[atlantis]

Actually, to my tastes, turkey bacon is not bad if prepared properly. Its also a healthier choice. Its a poor mimic of pork bacon, I agree, but if you approach it as a breakfast dish in its own right, its acceptable. If I opt for beef to round out my breakfast, steak and eggs or corned beef hash is my choice. And tastier than bacon, IMHO.

By any chance did you find any in Indonesia? Though I admit that the idea of tasting turkey bacon sounds weird to me, you have made me curious.

 

[waarmstrong]

The point is that characterizing as loutish indifferent children, those who do not accept your world view is not going to engender a throng of converts. Forgive my inability to refrain from having a bit of fun with the portentous nature of your rhetoric.

Added later: To clarify, the above is in reference to the OP's #35, not to our favorite Frenchman.