Ministry of Agriculture Announces Intention To Ban Dog Meat Trade

Pak Asam Manis

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Even as a Cat ... I approve of this move. Hopefully, it will actually be codified and enforced.
 

steveandpenny

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Just hope this is really going to happen. I realize it wont stop the trade but would curtail it for sure. There are police here that would be happy to enforce it as long as their commanders are on board. If nothing else it will stop the trade in the main market here in tomohon which is well known around the world as a extreme market place.
 

atlantis

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Like the total ban on alkohol pushed by the Muslim parties and discussed by the DPR it will take forever to come to an agreement.

It will be discussed for some time, opposed by most in non muslim areas of the archipelago, and if it is eventually passed, such ban will have exception areas for cultural reasons. Manado, Tomohon and the Minahasa, Bali will be part of these areas.

Even if it is passed, Police will close the eyes as they do for the production of Cap Tikus, Kasegaran and other liquor we produce and use everyday in the villages. Cultural reason again.

Last, the majority of the dog meat trade happens outside the main markets, being out of reach of an type of enforcement. Tomohon market is nothing on the overall picture.

In Indonesia, you have to choose your fights or you become insane. Fighting against dog meat trade in the Minahasa, whatever the reality of such trade is, is a sure loss. It will require a couple of generation and Education for things to changed. The new generation in the city is already less into consuming dog meat but it is still very strong in the villages where it is a huge thing. No traditional wedding or celebration can be held without a few dogs accompanying the traditional babi putar.

A ban is the silliest thing to do if you want to curve the consumption of dog meat here. As a reaction against it, which would be seen as a ban imposed by Jakarta (read: the Muslim majority) it may only do one thing: increasing it.
 

Pak Asam Manis

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Although it saddens my whiskers, the answer given by Atlantis above does not surprise me at all, and I agree for the most part that it is probably an accurate prognostication. The Prime Directive says that we should not interfere with the development and possible "evolution" or changes in other cultures and civilizations. Although many of us outsiders may consider this sort of behavior and "customary or traditional practice" far from what we consider as "civilized", there is probably close to nothing we can actually do to stop it if the local governments will not enforce any ban.

Wishful thinking and even attempts at action may have no real effect, other than to make the wisher or doer think he or she has done "something" even if in practical terms it amounts to nothing.
 

atlantis

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Just to give an idea a couple of years ago, AFMI (animal friend Manado Indonesia) circulated a petition throughout Sulut to forbid the trade and consumption of dog and cat meat. At the time they unfortunately didn't managed to reach the 5.000 signatures (for the record, Sulut Province has 2.8 millions souls) and I heard through the grapevine that many of those who signed did not have a "local sounding name" and quite a few others were Manadonese leaving abroad. Their FB page at the time was written mostly in English, not really the best media to communicate here.

Personally I don't eat anymore dog meat, save for special occasion like weddings. We also don't trade it. Not because of religious or moral conviction, just because it's not our market.
 

Pak Asam Manis

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Personally I don't eat anymore dog meat, save for special occasion like weddings. We also don't trade it. Not because of religious or moral conviction, just because it's not our market.

Yeeeshh. Gave up the moral for the morsel, eh? What's next on the menu, "orang a la orange"? Bon apetit!

And I thought giving up paper, using a "jongkok" and washing with my left hand / sprayer was "going native" enough ...
 

atlantis

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Yeeeshh. Gave up the moral for the morsel, eh? What's next on the menu, "orang a la orange"? Bon apetit!
As a starter, I don't think a minute that consuming dog meat is against moral. Secondly, the taste is ok when properly prepared, but I reckon it's mainly due to the bumbu rather than the meat itself. If you think it is gonna be like pork ribs or beef tenderloin you are in for a huge deception.
The reason I rarely eat any nowadays is because I spend my nights in our main local market where I see the wet dead dogs being unloaded from boats (they are killed up river) and literally dragged two by two in the mud to the place they got stripped and chopped to be sold. It is not super appetizing to say the least. I now just eat RW in weddings because I know that they are mostly dogs which were raised and killed by the family without going through the pasar where the higiene is slightly substandard to say it politely.

Hey I sell beef bacon! Would you believe that? Beef and bacon doesn't sound well, imho... but I trade some in Hotels which have to keep their kitchen Halal. Believe me, I feel much more ashamed of that "bacon" than if I would have to trade dog meat.
 

Anglian

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If people eat meat, it’s not really fair to say one section of society be banned eating dog or cat meat they have been eating for years,
Muslims and Jews don’t eat pork for very obvious reasons, I used to live by the New Forest in England, lots of wild ponies, but most visitors to the area don’t realise that the only reason there are so many is because they are rounded up annually and shipped to the continent for those dreadful foreigners who eat horse meat.
If you want to see what animals and reptiles the Chinese eat is visit a market, the only thing that isn’t there is the legs off a table
 
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Pak Asam Manis

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Yeah, I get it that you are quite self-assured about whatever you do and so on.

I also understand quite well about different cultures different values and all that.

In any case, in my own belief system, it's not my job nor place to "judge" the beliefs or actions of other humans, though my right to hold my own opinions is a constant and non-negotiable fact.

So my opinion about you eating dog meat and your thought about that being morally "fit", and I'm sure it won't surprise you, is that it is entirely disgusting and equally repugnant (yes, morally).

If you or anyone else would so much as try to harm a hair on the head of one of MY dogs, (figuratively for the moment, as I have none which are still living) I would have to kill you or be killed first, that is a fact.
 

Euc-

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I don't see the difference between eating pork, pigeon, horse, rabbit or dog. While I personally don't eat dog meat, mostly because the few times I've tried I simply disliked the taste which could be attributed to the cooking methods, I have absolutely no problem with other people eating it.

Obviously the trade should be "regulated", same as they claim to do for any other meat industry, and stealing pet dogs to be sold into the meat-trade is of course horrible.

Just because some animals CAN be domesticated, does not give them an exception not to be eaten.

Atlantis, yes, you should be very ashamed for selling beef "bacon" :p
 

atlantis

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If you or anyone else would so much as try to harm a hair on the head of one of MY dogs, (figuratively for the moment, as I have none which are still living) I would have to kill you or be killed first, that is a fact.
You wouldn't have to try and loose your life in the process, Pak Asam Manis. We only trade meat products which have a traceability and respect a certain standard of quality and higiene. Now if you would get me some dog meat with a proper, easily verifiable, certification, IQF and vacuum packed and I have demands on our market, said product would most certainly enter in our POS system.

I wouldn't kill someone who would have killed Ontet (that's the family dog's name) but if caught and proven, the culprit would certainly receive one of the most severe beating he has ever received. I have often used violence in retaliation of a bad deed. I am not proud of it but violence is a part of me. However, I would never talk about killing someone. These are not light words and should be used with caution, imho.

Now, the day Ontet will naturally pass away, I know that my crew will propose me to bury him which I will accept. However I am pretty certain that if I later dig the hole he is supposed to be buried in, I would find no bones. I know that the dogs before Ontet have been officially buried. The reality may have been otherwise.
 

Pak Asam Manis

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I don't see the difference between eating pork, pigeon, horse, rabbit or dog. While I personally don't eat dog meat, mostly because the few times I've tried I simply disliked the taste which could be attributed to the cooking methods, I have absolutely no problem with other people eating it.


Just because some animals CAN be domesticated, does not give them an exception not to be eaten.

/QUOTE]

Like I said, "Bon apetit":

 

Euc-

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You have conveniently forgotten to quote this part of my message:

"Obviously the trade should be "regulated", same as they claim to do for any other meat industry"
 

Pak Asam Manis

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You have conveniently forgotten to quote this part of my message:

"Obviously the trade should be "regulated", same as they claim to do for any other meat industry"

The inclusion of the bit you mentioned would have no bearing on the reality that actually exists, so if you wish to say that you condone a dog-eating world that is completely separate from and different to the REALITY, as shown in the video, then okay, wonderful for you. I condone a world in which there is universal single payer health care and free ice cream for life for every person, hooray.

And if it was "regulated", who is to say the regulation would not be that it should be just as shown in the video, with the blowtorches, clubs and all?
 

Euc-

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The inclusion of the bit you mentioned would have no bearing on the reality that actually exists, so if you wish to say that you condone a dog-eating world that is completely separate from and different to the REALITY, as shown in the video, then okay, wonderful for you. I condone a world in which there is universal single payer health care and free ice cream for life for every person, hooray.

I'd vote for you if you run with the ice-cream point.

You do not make sense. Yes, the reality is different right now, and instead of trying to make a "better" reality by regulating the trade you say you support an outright ban. You go from one extreme to the other totally disrespecting other people's cultures and traditions, simply because they are different to your own.

Why can't dogs be bread same like cattle?

Do you eat steak?
 

atlantis

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@Pak Asam Manis,
On your video of the Tomohon market you see the trading place for Rat, Ular Patola, Dog Meat, Paniki, Burung Weris and pork. Surprisingly you don't see the kambing and sapi section which are no better in terms of higiene and humanity.
 

Euc-

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@Pak Asam Manis,
On your video of the Tomohon market you see the trading place for Rat, Ular Patola, Dog Meat, Paniki, Burung Weris and pork. Surprisingly you don't see the kambing and sapi section which are no better in terms of higiene and humanity.

Because that will counter their own argument so gets left out.
 

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