KITAS HOLDER RUNNING A shop

[Lemonyellow]

Hello, I'm a new user in this forum. I've been living in Indonesia with spousal KITAS. AS my spouse has a small shop, I want to know can I help her running the shop? More elaborately can I face people as salesman? Would it be considered working illegally? Might anyone have the same situation or so? And I want to know about the UU 6 NOMOR 2011, PASAL 61? What does it really mean for a KITAS holder. Thanks in advance. And I'm sorry if the same topic was discussed earlier.

 

[Bad_azz]

In short the law says : a WNA (foreigner) on a spouse sponsored visa (ITAS/ITAP) is permitted work to support their family.

The longer answer is that there are some regulations and careers that are prohibitive. Example - an unqualified WNA cannot do jobs that they would need qualifications for. Also there are some jobs that a WNA is not permitted to do- I think they tend to be Human resources, medical etc.
I don't have the list to hand.
I do know that sales / marketing / shop work aren't on that list

 

[Lemonyellow]

Well, thanks BA. Couple of days ago I went to the Kantor imigrasi and asked them the question. At first they said you can't work like that then they added you can but not Infront. You should be behind of the shop, maybe putting the goods here and there. As I mentioned the law they said, it means working behind not giving direct service to people. Later, when I was leaving one of them said, you can work in your wife's shop but don't sit behind the cash counter!

 

[Bad_azz]

Well the guys at kanIm obviously have their own interpretation of the law- and incorrect at that. The law states (in Bhs indonesia) a WNA sponsored by spouse on ITAS/ITAP may work to support their family.

Its ok, the guys at my local KanIm interpret it as a male WNA can work but a female can't - obviously I ignored them cos they are full of crap- "orang" = person , not male or female.

To be honest I wouldn't waste my breath discussing it- they are bottom feeders in such matters. If you are not doing anything illegal as to the wording of the law they won't /shouldn't give you any trouble- especially if you are confident & don't roll over & hand them your belly- if you show weakness they often see that as temptation to make things awkward/difficult/expensive - insert word of choice

 

[jstar]

And I want to know about the UU 6 NOMOR 2011, PASAL 61? What does it really mean for a KITAS holder.

Couple of days ago I went to the Kantor imigrasi

The law you refer to, is indeed an Immigration law. And so is that article 61. But the Ministry of Manpower and Transmigration, you could argue they have authority in the matter, says in their law that a company which wants to hire a foreigner, needs an IMTA, a written authorization. And an individual can not hire a foreigner. But according to many here, that only applies to people who have the official status of foreign worker (TKA), which a spouse sponsored foreigner is not. And there we go again...

All people who live here and who are on a spouse sponsored visa, are in this situation. And no, I'm not willing to be the test case in court....

 

[Jamu]

Has anyone heard of a case where a spouse of a WNI, on a spouse sponsored Kitas or Kitap, has been arrested by the authorities for working 'illegally'? Because I haven't.

 

[brian@bekasi]

Without getting into the legal issues, I honestly think this whole issue of working in your wife's shop depends on where the shop is located.

In places like Bali I don't think anyone would take much notice.

However, in places like where I live, it would draw a lot of attention. As happens a lot in Indonesia, if you draw attention to yourself someone is likely to lodge a complaint. Then regardless of what the law says you will still need to defend yourself possibly against the claim of a foreigner taking jobs from locals.

We are having this discussion in our household. My wife owns property that we developed into a new retail space and instead of selling she now wants to open a retail store. One of her reasons for opening shop is to give me something to do while she works at her real job. I am against the idea as I wish to remain low key and not run the risk of any complaints.

 

[Lemonyellow]

@brian@bekasi yes, thats true. And even though I don't have white skin, it's easily draws attention to people who come to the shop or normally when they see me outside. They would ask, orang mana Abang / dari mana? And I don't know if someone complains or not. It depends on them. But the whole situation is still complicated to me. Some say you can work, some say you can't give service directly. Even before applying for kitas the officer who reviewed my application of sosbud extension, he told my wife - as your husband can't work in any company, why don't you open a little shop or something so he can help you there. Then wife asked him, can he do that? He said, of course he can! I don't know who is correct, either the law or the officials. Again one of them say, You're on 'suami ikut istri' Kitas , so you can't work. I don't know what I'm doing is considered work or not. I don't know maybe we would appoint 1/2 worker so it wouldn't look like that I'm taking jobs from local!

 

[Pak Asam Manis]

I'm following this because at some point I will probably also be the bule helping - in some capacity - to run the wife's shop or business. Like they say the law of 2011 says we have the right of work to help support our family, and the Manpower regulation says that to work for a company, by contract, we must have IMTA ... so, we are not allowed to do such work under spousal visa alone. Since that is true, then the kind of work we ARE allowed to do to support our family would almost have to include such things like helping run, operate, manage a small business with our spouse or other family members, I would think.

It's also practical to think that local police or immigration officers * might * see such a situation as a possible shakedown opportunity, if they should become aware of it, but the law is on our side in this area. As far as in the back of the shop but not in front, not sitting behind the cash register et cetera, I think that is just kind of nonsense made up by the local officials who said so, but maybe the idea of keeping a less obvious profile makes sense ...

 

[Lemonyellow]

I don't know much about the manpower law but maybe to have an IMTA someone must have an employer and criteria goes on. But helping at the wife's shop doesn't fit any criteria at all. I don't know maybe experienced users might have different views. But for me, the situation leaves me no choice of helping her because she quit her previous job after marriage and this shop is all that we have. And I don't know if someone would try to make problem I would be happy to face them as according to law it's not illegal to support your family.

 

[snpark]

As with all things bule here, just keep your head down, be quiet, respect the customs and traditions, be friendly and polite and smile and fit in, then you won't have problems

Even with the law on your side, they might come for a shakedown but it is just them testing the waters for future opportunities

 

[Lemonyellow]

Thanks @snpark I am trying my best.

 

[Bad_azz]

Even with the law on your side, they might come for a shakedown but it is just them testing the waters for future opportunities

My take on it is that it would not be an imigration shake down, as no immigration laws are being broken.
At best you would get some wide-boy chancers trying their luck.
If you stay calm & resolute there is not much they can do to you- legally.
Anyone who does go after the WNA on the spouse sponsor will most likely get slapped down by his (/her) superiors.
Yes the law does count - in response to whoever it was who said they didn't know what to believe the law, or the "officials"-:The higher-up-the-totem-pole officials made those laws, so the laws are what we WNA should be adhering to (indeed it is part of our visa condition to adhere to the law, as far as i know).
Personally, I am 50-50 about being the test case, the pedant within wants to, the one with the family & home & animals here is more reticent.


& yes I know what you mean about people wanting to know our business inside and out & bitching about it... only yesterday I was picked up by GoCar & the driver was more inquisitive than the Kan Im interview- he was really getting his beak into my business- even so much to ask what visa I was on hahaha.
Told him to shut up & that I had headache.

 

[Lemonyellow]

Well, I don't know how to put it, since my wife opened the shop, we have been going to the downtown for buying things for the shop, and as my Bahasa Indonesia is quite okay, I have been handling the purchase and so on. First time people just wanted to know my native country and they sometimes wonder(or pretend) how can I speak their language. That's it. And most of the people come to our shop, don't care about me ( at least their body language show that) , they just buy and simply leave. A few of them asked, guessed, and showed their curiosity. Some thought I might be from middle Eastern because of my beard. Yes, till today this is my experience.

 

[atlantis]

And no, I'm not willing to be the test case in court....

Perhaps we may ask ourselves the question: Why in the past 7 years of enactment of UU 6/2011 not a single case went to court?

 

[Zavia]

Well, I don't know how to put it, since my wife opened the shop, we have been going to the downtown for buying things for the shop, and as my Bahasa Indonesia is quite okay, I have been handling the purchase and so on. First time people just wanted to know my native country and they sometimes wonder(or pretend) how can I speak their language. That's it. And most of the people come to our shop, don't care about me ( at least their body language show that) , they just buy and simply leave. A few of them asked, guessed, and showed their curiosity. Some thought I might be from middle Eastern because of my beard. Yes, till today this is my experience.

I think as long as you are not like "shop keeper manager with badge and your face on the wall", sitting obviously behind a cash register or some important pile of papers doing "formal" work and signing stuff... it will be ok.

Id say put your skills into purchasing decisions, negotiating with suppliers, online marketing (google adwords, instagram, tokopedia) and other things that are not noticeable as working.

(i know nothing about this, im just typing cos theres a lull at work)

 

[amamedo]

Hello, I'm a new user in this forum. I've been living in Indonesia with spousal KITAS. AS my spouse has a small shop, I want to know can I help her running the shop? More elaborately can I face people as salesman? Would it be considered working illegally? Might anyone have the same situation or so? And I want to know about the UU 6 NOMOR 2011, PASAL 61? What does it really mean for a KITAS holder. Thanks in advance. And I'm sorry if the same topic was discussed earlier.

Am writing here because this page helped me alot last week. So this is what happened to me. Am kitas holder sponsored by my wife. We just started a small food business in jakarta selatan..
To cut the story shirt the immigration catched me while am serving customers and i served one of the immigration officers as well. He even asked me are you the owner and i said yes.. So after he finished his food he asked me if we can have a small talk then he showed me his ID and started to ask me questions then he asked for my passport. He took it and gave me recipt to come the next day to the immigration. Next day i go there and they started asking so many general questions. The immigration officer asked me, do you know that as a kitas holder you are not allowed to work? I said to him can you show me the rule that saying so? He did not answer. Then the immigration Rules book No 6 / 2011 was in front of him. I asked him can you please open article number 61 in your immigration rules book. He just smiled and did not open it..
I signed on all the investgation they did and waited for 30 minutes then took my passport and left.
The rule is very clear. If you are on kitas sponsored by your wife, by law you are allowed to work in your wife's business as long as the business is small and not a PT. If it becomes a PT you still have the rights to work but you have to do the IMTA...

 

[Lemonyellow]

For me it's been 1 year running the shop and I still haven't faced this kind of situation. Thanks @amamedo for sharing your experience. This is the first time I have heard where a spouse sponsored ITAS holder running a shop and faced immigration officer. Well, it truly relieved me a bit

You said you signed on all the investigation. Was it some kind of form or what? Can you tell us more?

 

[Dave70]

I signed on all the investgation they did and waited for 30 minutes then took my passport and left.

What is it you signed? Did you read it? Did they say anything?

 

[dafluff]

Am writing here because this page helped me alot last week. So this is what happened to me. Am kitas holder sponsored by my wife. We just started a small food business in jakarta selatan..
To cut the story shirt the immigration catched me while am serving customers and i served one of the immigration officers as well. He even asked me are you the owner and i said yes.. So after he finished his food he asked me if we can have a small talk then he showed me his ID and started to ask me questions then he asked for my passport. He took it and gave me recipt to come the next day to the immigration. Next day i go there and they started asking so many general questions. The immigration officer asked me, do you know that as a kitas holder you are not allowed to work? I said to him can you show me the rule that saying so? He did not answer. Then the immigration Rules book No 6 / 2011 was in front of him. I asked him can you please open article number 61 in your immigration rules book. He just smiled and did not open it..
I signed on all the investgation they did and waited for 30 minutes then took my passport and left.
The rule is very clear. If you are on kitas sponsored by your wife, by law you are allowed to work in your wife's business as long as the business is small and not a PT. If it becomes a PT you still have the rights to work but you have to do the IMTA...

Thank you so much for posting this experience!