New Education Minister

[fastpitch17]

Thanks WK, that's all very informative.

A couple of the many weaknesses that (outsiders, anyway) have identified in the Indonesian education system are poorly trained teachers and a gender imbalance in educational opportunities (namely, girls in remote areas are less likely to be allowed to do the travel/time away from home needed for educational purposes). I wonder to what extent the Ministry has been trying, or will try, to address those issues.

Puspa, I have to agree with WK about the negatives mentioned above as being proposed before and then signed into use after Buswaden's Ministry. As soon as he took over he started to throw out the curriculum and books associated to it ordered up by his predecessor. He demanded better certification for teachers and wanted more important and relevant courses put back into Indonesian schools. My belief as to his thinking Indonesians should attend Indonesian school was to cause some Activision from parents to improve the education system and that he felt that he would improve them so people would accept his leadership.

Of course, we all want great improvements in the education system but it can't be done overnight. Nothing smart here is done overnight. He may have been a bit slow for some but in comparrason to the ministers that changed things on a whim, that is fine with me. To change the education system changes need to come first at the university level for training of the teachers. Currently they are being trained by those that came through a poor system themselves. In a perfect world he could have come in with sweeping changes and demands but this is Indonesia where a constant battle takes place between the various government factions and religious leadership. It's a tough place to get something orogressive going. A tougher place to get the youth to dream, imagine, have open minds, and critical thoughts because that wouldn't be following the leads of their superiors.

MissN. Patriotism is far from what is being taught in any school here. Nationalism is the proper word for it. Patriotism is not taught, it is absorbed into the hearts.

 

[Missnaughty]

Hmm, I think a lot of people would argue that this is not true - I can't make the case one way or the other, since I have only a tiny bit of knowledge, and that is second-hand, of Indonesian schools. But if you truly believe this, why send your kids to BIS?

In my opinion in the weakness of Indonesian education is not the academic challenge. But more, like someone said above, the quality of the teachers delivering the subject. If I want my children read early, top notch in math, I will send them to Indonesian schools. But, I want them to receive western education where people are more open to new idea, confident enough to express their idea, and nurture their curiosity. While back in my time, like you said, we were dictate how to think, lot of memorising resulted when we have a different idea, it will be shut off completely.. I feel that Anis Baswedan, while protecting Indonesian patriotic interest, also would like to shape the mindset of Indonesian future generations. To be honest, all of my reason above why I put my kids into British School, not to American School. I was in a big argument with husband as he wanted to put them in American School. I worked in American School before, in the US.. I was not too happy to see how they are.. one that I notice, they were lacked of curiosity, to understand and to find out another life beside their home.

But a good thing about school here, they facilitate the students.. who wants to improve.. will get the best result. I am happy that my children shaped into what I am hoping they would be.. And being here can only accelerate their success.

And note : the end of the day, facing a challenging Indonesian education system, for those who wants the progress will find the way. I have so many successful friends here and the only education they receive is only local Indonesian education. I guess, parenting at home what made them who they are.

 

[fastpitch17]

The new Education Minister is also a Chairman of the Muhammadiyah (MUI) in regards to education. This an by itself should lead one to ask some questions on just where this minister will lead the education system.

The education elite are coming out and saying the best minister has been removed in order to satisfy some political parties. Nothing new here and they never seem to learn that these types of political moves do nothing for the benefit of the Indonesian masses.

 

[William King]

If I want my children read early, top notch in math, I will send them to Indonesian schools.

Based on what measures ? Sorry to say, but PISA results do not support that comment MsNaughty.

 

[Missnaughty]

Based on what measures ? Sorry to say, but PISA results do not support that comment MsNaughty.[/COLOR]

Base on just my observation. The material taught in local schools are no less than what is taught in the US. Many friends who went to international exchange program has no difficulties to follow the curriculum in the foreign schools.. in fact some found what taught and required in the US is pretty easy. I think some of my Indonesian fellas who has been enjoying local and foreign education can give some light. The key is to find the right school where teachers are trained well. In term what they teach at school.. all the same. And do you see how this Asian Mothers behave?... Now.. I dont know how PISA performed.. if it is included those who lives in remote area where there were no books and ruin building..well.. it won't produce a good score.

 

[William King]

Base on just my observation.

Unless you have particular expertise in that area, then it is a logical fallacy.

And do you see how this Asian Mothers behave?...

Yes, and it is ugly. Tiger mom is one of the saddest books i have ever read, the mother is conceited, ignorant, shallow and wrong on so many levels.

Now.. I dont know how PISA performed..

So educate yourself.

if it is included those who lives in remote area where there were no books and ruin building..well.. it won't produce a good score.

Why ? It's only a comparison against other countries, who also have schools in remote areas with similar sorts of challenges, compare like for like.

 

[Puspawarna]

Base on just my observation. The material taught in local schools are no less than what is taught in the US. Many friends who went to international exchange program has no difficulties to follow the curriculum in the foreign schools.. in fact some found what taught and required in the US is pretty easy.

I'm not sure that should comfort anyone. The United States education system has been losing ground for years:

The US ranks below the OECD in every category (That was in 2012)
students improving slowly in math and science but still lagging internationally (That was in 2015)

I could shower you with links if I wanted. All you have to do is type: "how do American students rank in mathematics?" or something similar into Google and you will see for yourself. The point is, even if Indonesian public school education is the equal of US public school education, that is nothing to be proud of!

One reason for this is that in the US is that states have an absurd amount of control over the curriculum that is taught. And funding is highly dependent on localized sources like property taxes. So the quality of education available is extremely uneven. Poor kids get lousy schools, rich kids get good ones. Why do you think that both Republican and Democratic administrations have been pushing programs like "No Child Left Behind" and "Common Core"? It's a recognition that the state of American education has become appalling.

 

[Missnaughty]

Why ? It's only a comparison against other countries, who also have schools in remote areas with similar sorts of challenges, compare like for like.

Let's go back to my quote :

If I want my children read early, top notch in math, I will send them to Indonesian schools.

In my opinions : Indonesian schools are focusing purely on academic result. There is rank, rate and what grade you are on. Students are valued by numbers. So making kids a math gig or read when they are 3 are the goals of Asian parents, so good school will compete to be best to attract parents.. we do not have district system here.. so eventhou schools suppose to be "free", favourite schools always charge you with good amount of donation. So being in this environment, where learning math and read does not stop in schools, I am sure that my kids would better off in math if they are in Indonesian schools.

Now, about PISA, I did suspect that PISA Score base on average score taken from different area.. like you said they have to compare apple with apple. But, let say compare the score in Public School in Bremen AL with the public school In Praya, Lombok Tengah.. .. well.. the school in Praya won't come out with any score at all I guess. With ruin building, undertrained teacher and sometimes no students... compare to full facility school in Bremen.. that would be too far to compare .. But, if I compare the favourite school here in Sugarland with my high school in Jogja.. I promise you, our score would be higher..

of course, I won't put my kids in the remote area here or there.. So base on this thought, I feel that if i want to have a math gig kids, I will no doubt put them in Indoensian School. In the favourite school.. I have never say that average rating of Indoenesian education is better than those Intl curriculum..

 

[Missnaughty]

I could shower you with links if I wanted. All you have to do is type: "how do American students rank in mathematics?" or something similar into Google and you will see for yourself. The point is, even if Indonesian public school education is the equal of US public school education, that is nothing to be proud of!

One reason for this is that in the US is that states have an absurd amount of control over the curriculum that is taught. And funding is highly dependent on localized sources like property taxes. So the quality of education available is extremely uneven. Poor kids get lousy schools, rich kids get good ones. Why do you think that both Republican and Democratic administrations have been pushing programs like "No Child Left Behind" and "Common Core"? It's a recognition that the state of American education has become appalling.

True Puspa. But American curriculum is one of the international curriculum. And America is one of the developed country which we look up to. So, it proves my point that local curriculum is no less than international curriculum and the environment where parents and schools attitude are so ambitious and competitive will resulted to math and book gig.. yes you are good in math.. yes you are reading at 3 years old so what? it will damage the ability of the students to have free thinking and innovation. The measurement in Local schools are rating and rank (Kids in local schools are ranked amongst their peers, so we are labeled with smart ones and stupid ones).

 

[William King]

In my opinions : Indonesian schools are focusing purely on academic result. There is rank, rate and what grade you are on.

That does not mean they are any good at it.

You don't want to take my word for it ? How about the World Bank ?

• Student learning achievement. Indonesia continues to rank low in international standardized tests of student performance, even after taking socio-economic conditions into account. In 2003, Indonesia ranked 33 out of 45 countries in the Third International Mathematics Science Study (TIMSS). In the 2006 Program for International Student Assessment (PISA), which looks at how well 15-year-old students are prepared for life, Indonesia ranked around 50 out of 57 countries in science, reading and math.

http://www.worldbank.org/en/country/indonesia/brief/world-bank-and-education-in-indonesia

"even after taking socio-economic conditions into account."

That blows your Praya Lombok example out of the water.

Indonesian universities have also performed poorly in international university rankings. TheTimes Higher Education rated no Indonesian institutions among its top 400 global universities or top 100 Asian universities in 2013. Likewise, the Shanghai Jiao Tong Ranking reported no Indonesian universities among its global top 500. The QS World Ranking, on the other hand, lists the University of Indonesia 64[SUP]th[/SUP] in Asia (309[SUP]th[/SUP] globally), the Bandung Institute of Technology 129[SUP]th[/SUP] (461-470 globally), Universitas Gadjah Mada 133[SUP]rd[/SUP] (501-550), and Airlangga University 145[SUP]th[/SUP] (701+).Indonesia finished bottom out of 50 countries in the 2013 edition of the Universitas 21 ranking, which grades national higher education systems on investment, research output, gender balance, international connectivity and other measures. It scored particularly poorly on the first two metrics.

http://wenr.wes.org/2014/04/education-in-indonesia/

That data comes from THE and QS for University rankings.

No matter which way you look at it, Indonesia does not rate well. Sorry to say.

 

[William King]

the Asian excellence that you are thinking of is pretty much confined to Singapore, Hong Kong and Shanghai.

 

[kimdub]

the Asian excellence that you are thinking of is pretty much confined to Singapore, Hong Kong and Shanghai.

Can't you add S. Korea and Taiwan? I have always been impressed when I have met a student from those countries.

 

[Missnaughty]

That does not mean they are any good at it.

You don't want to take my word for it ? How about the World Bank ?



http://www.worldbank.org/en/country/indonesia/brief/world-bank-and-education-in-indonesia

"even after taking socio-economic conditions into account."

That blows your Praya Lombok example out of the water.



http://wenr.wes.org/2014/04/education-in-indonesia/

That data comes from THE and QS for University rankings.

No matter which way you look at it, Indonesia does not rate well. Sorry to say.

OK. I took your words.. I just want to assure people I have met meeting many many Indonesians that is well positioned and successful abroad with only received local education plus maybe master and above abroad. Btw, Obama went to SD in jakarta.. ha! What does it tell you?

 

[Missnaughty]

Here I want to add why it is a lost to get rid off Pak Anies Baswedam, to make my point clearer. His vision is to build the character of Indonesian students. It is not about successful academically. He emphasized curriculum in the early years more to developed social skills, character and integrity. He made teachers to be certified to be able to teach, to get this certification teachers must join certain workshop. I am not sure how this thing work.. but if you are certified, you allow a pay rise. So.. he is gone.. I am sure the curriculum will change.. what a shame!

 

[fastpitch17]

OK. Btw, Obama went to SD in jakarta.. ha! What does it tell you?

Get off the Obama boat. He lived here 3 years. Maybe we should blame all his weaknesses on going to school here.

 

[Missnaughty]

Get off the Obama boat. He lived here 3 years. Maybe we should blame all his weaknesses on going to school here.

Remember you got Bush ..

 

[Nimbus]

I went through the Indonesian public school system from elementary to high school, and I'm not a complete failure. Having said that, if I were to pick between a top U.S. public school in an affluent district and a top Indonesian public school, I'll pick the American one. Yes, Indonesian schools cram more stuff in a shorter amount of time, but what good does it all bring you if you pick a college major wholly unrelated to the extra material? What top American schools lack in material density is more than compensated by better and more dedicated teachers, who are willing to balance sheer academic excellence with personal growth.

 

[fastpitch17]

Remember you got Bush ..

yeah, we got a lot of people. None of which have anything to do if Obama got a whole three years of living in Indonesia and experiencing it's education system.

 

[rabbit_39]

If I was to only go by experience, taking Uber, grab, gojek drivers as examples, I'd say that if they were educated in Indonesia, the system failed. My street is about 500 meters long, next to a university and it has an art theater that has been mentioned by some of us. The house numbers are consecutive.

If they can find the street (despite GPS maps, many still can't find the street), they can't find the house. Even after calling me and being told the house number, the whole street is consecutive, and that the house has big numbers on a 4 meter wide gate.

This means :
1. They can't count consecutively beyond 30
2. They aren't willing to think about how to find the house and instead wants me to flag them down on the street (I've had my phone stolen this way, by motorcycle thieves) .
3. Maybe they can't read numbers?

I'd have to say that finding someone who has critical thinking skills and problem solving attitudes have been challenging. I've worked with and interviewed too many to count.

And if I want people who can do what MissN values in Indonesian schools, I'd hire technicians. Engineers are beyond crunching the numbers and being passive participants in a problem solving exercise.

In my experience (beyond Uber, grab, gojek drivers), Indonesian schools, general public mindset, and peer examples are lacking in creating and nurturing intelligent, independent thinking, and creative members of its society.

 

[fastpitch17]

I have not found an Indonesian educated student that has been taught the value of imagination, dreams, creative thinking, or independent thought. If they had any of these qualities, they seem to be stripped away at an early age. As far as schools go, if it isn't on the National Exam, you probably won't be told to memorize it.