Punishment for women who don't want to wear jilbab

[Davita]

Sorry Sul1995 I cannot see any of your pics..... is it only me or has the censors clipped because they were too racy...

 

[nd_eric_77]

I do not have religious objections to the jilbab, but I find it aesthetically inferior. IMO, even the most stylish jilbab will be far "uglier" than a simple traditional Javanese long hair and exposed shoulder look. "Islamic fashion" is similar to "Christian Rock and Roll": in the immortal words of Hank Hill...

 

[mauricio]

Sorry Sul1995 I cannot see any of your pics..... is it only me or has the censors clipped because they were too racy...

I didn't know what was wrong but I try again to copy & paste and this time it evaded the censors .

 

[Pimpin]

Dress and culture in Indonesia has always evolved much out of what is deemed as best for the majority, not so much out of a Western fashion sense (until recently), albeit at a much slower rate compared to the rate of women turning to wearing a jilbab over the last 30 years. Regardless, it is an evolution or for some a devolution.

When change comes many aren't happy. Different often equals discontent. People often yearn for "the good ol days" and find it difficult with the fixation with what one wants it all to be instead of excepting how things are.

Several posters have pointed out in their opinion a woman wearing a jilbab is less attractive than one not wearing one. Is that not the point for one of the main points one wears it?

 

[rabbit_39]

Several posters have pointed out in their opinion a woman wearing a jilbab is less attractive than one not wearing one. Is that not the point for one of the main points one wears it?

Wasn't the point about the beauty of the traditional Indonesian culture rather than the "beauty standard" applied upon the woman?

 

[fastpitch17]

Wasn't the point about the beauty of the traditional Indonesian culture rather than the "beauty standard" applied upon the woman?

It was but things can get twisted you know.

 

[Dan]

You missed the point, once an Indonesian woman starts wearing hijab, she can forget about her own culture & traditions forever (at least, the way she dress). However she try to wear traditional dress according to local customs, it will never be authentic with hijab.

If Arabization continues, local customs, culture and traditions will disappear or be changed forever.

"Arabization," just like how Shihab and company in FPI talk about "Christianization," right?

Here in the United States there's a lot of talk about something called "cultural appropriation." In a nutshell it's a term applied almost exclusively to white people whenever they make some kind of modern, liberal foible of wearing clothing or their hair in a manner they don't supposedly "own." It's bullshit, obviously, a symptom of how the Left loves to eat itself.

It's also something I don't ever expect to encounter among Indonesians. We're dealing with peoples who have spent centuries engaged in trade with people from around the world. Yes, you can encounter some provincial attitudes and even xenophobia, but you're also very unlikely to ever have them criticize you for wearing batik or adopting local custom. In fact, you'll find the opposite is true: the indigenous peoples LOVE IT when visitors appreciate and "appropriate" their culture.

None of the expatriates on this forum have lost their identity because they took to wearing batik. Not a one of you. But it's very telling that some of you are bent out of shape because women (note that no pictures of men were used and the discussion is just about the jilbab rather than the tagiyyah or topi or beards...) are choosing to express their Islamic identity, to find what they believe to be spiritual fulfillment. Suddenly, the atmosphere has been ruined because they are so pedestrian as to be Muslims.

I'm curious, are you really worried about the supposed decline of local culture or are you worried about how the local people should be dressing to appeal to the lot of you?

 

[fastpitch17]

I'm curious, are you really worried about the supposed decline of local culture or are you worried about how the local people should be dressing to appeal to the lot of you?

If I was looking for someone to appeal to me personally I wouldn't have stated that instead of using a ME fashion, one should have created a more traditional fashion style of head covering. Still covered Dan and yes, the males were mentioned a bit. Mostly by not so may being made to wear the ME style. Reserved more for Women I guess.

 

[Dan]

An Acehnese girl (who happens to be my daughter there was a wedding in our village yesterday) in traditional Acehnese dress. I have no idea how long Acehnese women have been dressing this way, but the headdress is pre-Islamic. Aceh is widely considered the most conservative province in Indonesia.

Did the Acehnese people become any less Acehnese in the 500 years since they became Muslims? No. Just like Hinduism and Buddhism before, they adopted Islam and integrated it into their lives.

Acehnese women are still Acehnese women. Javanese women will still be Javanese women. Your desire for the locals to have the proper level of "authenticity" reveals the actual problem here.

 

[Dan]

If I was looking for someone to appeal to me personally I wouldn't have stated that instead of using a ME fashion, one should have created a more traditional fashion style of head covering. Still covered Dan and yes, the males were mentioned a bit. Mostly by not so may being made to wear the ME style. Reserved more for Women I guess.

What business is it of yours if the local people choose to reject "tradition"?

Ya'll are tripping about the indigenous people not being indigenous enough for your tastes.

 

[rabbit_39]

I'm curious, are you really worried about the supposed decline of local culture or are you worried about how the local people should be dressing to appeal to the lot of you?

The latter of course.

 

[fastpitch17]

What business is it of yours if the local people choose to reject "tradition"?

Ya'll are tripping about the indigenous people not being indigenous enough for your tastes.

You're right Dan. You are always right Dan. No since in even asking about things because Dan tells you it's none of your business. Got it Dan. If anyone should ever ask me anything, I will surely answer them that Dan says it's none of their business.

 

[Dan]

You're right Dan. You are always right Dan. No since in even asking about things because Dan tells you it's none of your business. Got it Dan. If anyone should ever ask me anything, I will surely answer them that Dan says it's none of their business.

Note that there's no denial of a desire for "authenticity" among the indigenous people. They exist to appeal to the exotic desires of expatriates and tourists rather than having their own agency and desire for spiritual fulfillment as individuals.

You're not concerned about a decline in local culture, you're concerned about your perception of who they should be.

 

[William King]

You're right Dan. You are always right Dan. No since in even asking about things because Dan tells you it's none of your business. Got it Dan. If anyone should ever ask me anything, I will surely answer them that Dan says it's none of their business.

Wow. Rather passive agressive to a response that is very much like many of your own posts.

Don't like dogmatic posters, eh?

 

[Pimpin]

There was a time when traditionally many Indonesian women didn't wear tops so their breasts were fully exposed. I am outraged over this cultural loss and petition for getting back to traditional dress, however little apparel is needed.

Now damn it, where is my penis gourd? I have to go shopping.

 

[Pimpin]

If I was looking for someone to appeal to me personally I wouldn't have stated that instead of using a ME fashion, one should have created a more traditional fashion style of head covering. Still covered Dan and yes, the males were mentioned a bit. Mostly by not so may being made to wear the ME style. Reserved more for Women I guess.

Why don't you design one and test market it? More traditional has been pointed out as long flowing hair. Perhaps you could use a thinner, breathable material for the head covering and glue or tack some long hair to it. Everybody wins.

 

[fastpitch17]

You're not concerned about a decline in local culture, you're concerned about your perception of who they should be.

Gee Dan, what I most concerned about now is how to get rid of all the memories of the things you posted for the indigenous people owning things because of location, traditions, and cultures. Evidently posted just to post something that made a bit of sense.

 

[fastpitch17]

Wow. Rather passive agressive to a response that is very much like many of your own posts.

Don't like dogmatic posters, eh?

I guess we all can't be as gay and carefree as you.

 

[fastpitch17]

Why don't you design one and test market it? More traditional has been pointed out as long flowing hair. Perhaps you could use a thinner, breathable material for the head covering and glue or tack some long hair to it. Everybody wins.

Why don't you have another drink or toke. One more should about do it.

 

[mauricio]

I'm curious, are you really worried about the supposed decline of local culture or are you worried about how the local people should be dressing to appeal to the lot of you?

What business is it of yours if the local people choose to reject "tradition"?

Actually, it is my wife who is worried about the decline of local culture. She is Indonesian, so it is her business to be concerned of the rejection of her traditions. However, she is not a member of this forum, so I’m speaking out for her (and for the sake of our children too). I believe she is not the only Indonesian who care about their local customs. There must be a lot of people with the same feeling, but unfortunately, many are silent. As Edmund Burke said, “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing”. I am not saying that evil is happening but her local culture and traditions are under threat. If nothing is done, even memory and records of how Indonesian people used to dress (for example) will be erased forever in a hundred years. In other words, change is gradual, someday everybody will have to wear hijab, then everybody will have to wear burka, and by this time, history books and pictures will be destroyed so children grow up thinking this is normal and it is their culture to wear burka.