Radicalism Growing in Indonesia

[Daniel50]

You will start to see a lot of how Jokowi is anti this and that when it comes to the majorities religion. How he has done this or that against it. How he doesn't live up to being a good Muslim so people should question his true religious beliefs. There was a lot in the last election and there will be even more in the upcoming one in 2019.

Yes the politics of religion will grow. And in this there are those merely using it for political ends, some who believe there should be an Islamic State and many shades in between these extremes. However, the balance seems to be tipping away from more secularism to a greater role for one religion.

 

[fastpitch17]

Yes the politics of religion will grow. And in this there are those merely using it for political ends, some who believe there should be an Islamic State and many shades in between these extremes. However, the balance seems to be tipping away from more secularism to a greater role for one religion.

It has been tipping since 98. It really isn't something new.
I was just informed that the FPI and their comical leader have removed their FB pages. Wonder what's up with that?

 

[fastpitch17]

Maybe the war is starting.
http://jakarta.coconuts.co/2017/01/...wn-rival-mass-organization-gmbis-office-bogor

 

[dafluff]

Maybe the war is starting.
http://jakarta.coconuts.co/2017/01/...wn-rival-mass-organization-gmbis-office-bogor

This is good.

The more FPI acts like the thugs that they are, the easier it will be for the gov't to deal with them.

 

[fastpitch17]

This is good.

The more FPI acts like the thugs that they are, the easier it will be for the gov't to deal with them.

The more? How many acts do they need? The government only pays them lip service and says they don't have enough to react to them. http://www.thejakartapost.com/acade...policing-of-religious-intolerance-failed.html

 

[Daniel50]

At least they brought him in for questioning at the West Java/Bandung police station. Hopefully they follow through. Apparently it can be done, there is a current governor being tried for blasphemy. He reported in the article the police's ability follow up and solve cases. He missed another large area where there is not much police action, corruption.

 

[fastpitch17]

At least they brought him in for questioning at the West Java/Bandung police station. Hopefully they follow through. Apparently it can be done, there is a current governor being tried for blasphemy. He reported in the article the police's ability follow up and solve cases. He missed another large area where there is not much police action, corruption.

Brought him in for questioning? They summoned him twice to show up. He did the second time right after he visited Fadli Zon at the DPR who promised him they would look into the charges and police work against him.

 

[Daniel50]

Brought him in for questioning? They summoned him twice to show up. He did the second time right after he visited Fadli Zon at the DPR who promised him they would look into the charges and police work against him.

Okay "brought him in for questioning" could be a slight liberty to the events that transpired...ha ha ha. And his article was not directly about corruption but it does filter through almost everything.

 

[fastpitch17]

FPI arrested for the attack on GMBI.

"We plan to invite both parties to our headquarters to work out a truce, we don't want this fight to continue," Dicky said, adding that neither party should take the law into their own hands.

http://jakartaglobe.id/news/police-detain-20-fpi-members-bogor-attack/

 

[Daniel50]

What do you make of this? The MUI leader saying they need to stand against growing extremism? Do you think this is genuine, I thought they were also pushing Ahok's blasphemy charge?

http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2017/01/15/extremism-becoming-more-common-muhammadiyah.html

 

[fastpitch17]

What do you make of this? The MUI leader saying they need to stand against growing extremism? Do you think this is genuine, I thought they were also pushing Ahok's blasphemy charge?

http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2017/01/15/extremism-becoming-more-common-muhammadiyah.html

I think once the MUI was ridiculed about how their fatwas will not be considered or enforced as laws have backed off the Ahok stuff. The supporter groups for the fatwa are the main drivers along of course with the FPI. Many times the MUI seems to just follow public sentiment at the time and changes as often as you change your sheets. They may sound good today but tomorrow you may be asking yourself, what happened to yesterday.

 

[fastpitch17]

The spread of Salafism in Indonesia.

Since 1980, Saudi Arabia has been using education to quietly spread Salafism, its brand of puritanical Islam, in Indonesia, the world's most populous Muslim nation. The two main arms of this effort are LIPIA and scholarships for higher education in Saudi Arabia.

http://www.voanews.com/a/saudi-arab...-puritanical-islam-in-indonesia-/3679287.html

 

[Daniel50]

The spread of Salafism in Indonesia.



http://www.voanews.com/a/saudi-arab...-puritanical-islam-in-indonesia-/3679287.html

Ah yes..... Wahabi....kemosabe. They are not sure how it will play out but there are some examples. Time will tell if there is a negative shift to more fundamentalism, negative from my point of view and I am sure positive from some others point of view. It seems that others are noticing what they believe is a negative trend?

 

[Dan]

The spread of Salafism in Indonesia.



http://www.voanews.com/a/saudi-arab...-puritanical-islam-in-indonesia-/3679287.html

From the article, "Salafism is an ultra-conservative reform movement that advocates a return to Koranic times. LIPIA teaches Wahhabi Madhab, a strain of Salafi Islam expounded by the medieval Sunni theologian Ibn Taimiyah."

It's difficult to take American propaganda seriously when it gets something so basic so wrong.

The madhab adhered to by both Ibn Taymiyyah and most modern Salafis today is the Hanbali madhab if they adhere to a madhab at all. There is no "Wahhab madhab." It is true that Ibn Taymiyyah is the granddaddy of this movement, no doubt, and it is equally true that they are puritans.

Much has been said about this corrupting influence from the Arabian Peninsula, a "Protocols of the Elders of Saudi Arabia." Is Yusuf Qaradawi an example of this? This is a man who is championing death to apostates, yet he is the most famous scholar of Islam's most famous, most traditional institution, al-Azhar in Egypt. Indeed, a huge portion of the insane voices in the Muslim world are educated there, in the heartland of "traditional," non-Salaf Islam.

The local flavor of Islam in Indonesia is not as different as expatriates wish to believe or even Indonesians wish to believe. A Saudi or Qatari boogeyman is summoned, but the truth is that their influence is far less than that of their peers at the prestigious al-Azhar and that institution is producing jurists who rule as they always have: that apostates must be put to death (why? see Muhammad), that adulterers should be stoned (why? see Muhammad), that idols should be smashed... you get the point.

The problem isn't a fundamentalist interpretation of Islam: the problem is that Islam is fundamentalist by default.

 

[fastpitch17]

Thanks for your input Dan.

 

[Dan]

To give another example, Fethullah Gulen is actually quite liberal as far as popular Muslim voices go. He's the man most responsible for an Islamic renaissance in the Turkic world, the man whose organization has been purged by the Turkish government.

Despite being very liberal, despite being a learned Muslim voice from a relatively liberal madhab (Hanafi) he... upholds the death penalty for murtad, apostates.

This is a man with no connection to the Saudi monarchs, to Salafism, to Ibn Taymiyyah and so on. He may not be advocating for women in ninja costumes and fist length beards, but are his human rights credentials any better? He wants to tear down secularism, he wants to institute amputation and crucifixion as valid penalties.

Even in the absence of the Saudi boogeyman the core challenge remains.

 

[waarmstrong]

And the core challenge is .....

 

[Daniel50]

I heard an Islamic scholar recently saying, in his opinion, Islam needs to take a look at some of the teachings that are driving the radicals. He said until now the response has always been to say oh no Islam is a religion of peace. I certainly don't know enough about Islam to comment on these teachings.

 

[Dan]

And the core challenge is .....

Literal, immutable interpretation of the Qur'an and Sunnah.

 

[mauricio]

From the article, "Salafism is an ultra-conservative reform movement that advocates a return to Koranic times. LIPIA teaches Wahhabi Madhab, a strain of Salafi Islam expounded by the medieval Sunni theologian Ibn Taimiyah."

It's difficult to take American propaganda seriously when it gets something so basic so wrong.

The madhab adhered to by both Ibn Taymiyyah and most modern Salafis today is the Hanbali madhab if they adhere to a madhab at all. There is no "Wahhab madhab." It is true that Ibn Taymiyyah is the granddaddy of this movement, no doubt, and it is equally true that they are puritans.

Much has been said about this corrupting influence from the Arabian Peninsula, a "Protocols of the Elders of Saudi Arabia." Is Yusuf Qaradawi an example of this? This is a man who is championing death to apostates, yet he is the most famous scholar of Islam's most famous, most traditional institution, al-Azhar in Egypt. Indeed, a huge portion of the insane voices in the Muslim world are educated there, in the heartland of "traditional," non-Salaf Islam.

The local flavor of Islam in Indonesia is not as different as expatriates wish to believe or even Indonesians wish to believe. A Saudi or Qatari boogeyman is summoned, but the truth is that their influence is far less than that of their peers at the prestigious al-Azhar and that institution is producing jurists who rule as they always have: that apostates must be put to death (why? see Muhammad), that adulterers should be stoned (why? see Muhammad), that idols should be smashed... you get the point.

The problem isn't a fundamentalist interpretation of Islam: the problem is that Islam is fundamentalist by default.

Does it mean that Islam will never be compatible with modernity?