Idul Adha or Eid al-Adha

[londo_edan]

This auspicious day in the Moslem calendar falls on Monday this year and is celebrated as a National holiday in RI and many other countries around the globe. Its a big holiday in the Middle East and S Asia but I guess remains less well know in the West.

My understanding is that this day is referred to as the Day or Feast of Sacrifice and celebrates Abrahams willingness to kill his son upon a command from God, though he doesn't actually carry out this command. The day is celebrated by, amongst other events, the ritual sacrifice of an animal, with the meat then divided amongst the poor of the parish.

During my early years in Indonesia I would often spend public holidays cycling, but this was one public holiday that I would soon spend at home as some of the sights witnessed around the kampong were pretty upsetting. It was the same in India with certain parts of cities and towns resembling a charnel house on this day. Call me sensitive but I'll also be spending Monday at home this year.

Still: Eid Mubarak to each and every member of this forum, including DIA .

 

[jstar]

Yep, it looks like a farmers' market over here. I really don't want to make it a religious debate (again) but this is one of the reasons of Islam's bad image in western countries. It is one of those cultural clashes.

In many countries is it absolutely forbidden to slaughter an animal without anesthesia. This leads to the same discussions and conflicts every year. The point is, that putting to sleep will not be accepted unless the animal could be brought back out of this state. In the case of chicken that is rather easy, but for bigger animals that is practically impossible and created major issues. That leads to illegal slaughter every time.

Another thing that it has become, is the showcase (gengsi). It's like showing off to the world your good deeds and how upstanding you are. "Did you hear? Pak X bought a whole bull! It was almost 1.000 kilo!"

 

[Bowsaw]

My son is getting a goat sacraficied in his name for the kampung. He wont be watching it. Maybe the piss poor attitude to animals is because of the spectacle of an animal thrashing around gushing blood desensitises the ppl? Yep the whole place smells of blood.

 

[Dan]

A question for those uncomfortable with the qurban, do you eat meat? It's all well and good to see it on your plate and not know how it came to you, but to actually be faced with the slaughter (and consumption) of animals? Is it getting your hands dirty that upsets you or the animals that you're actually concerned with?

I understand the ethical arguments about non-professionals slaughtering animals. I highly doubt much of the meat you consume in Indonesia has been anesthetized, qurban or not. In some respects, I consider it a useful skill.

I learned how to hunt and clean my kills from a young age. I don't have too many hang ups about it. It's a useful skill, there's no guarantee that the trucks that feed you will always be there. Most Indonesians come from a background of food insecurity and scarcity. They have to kill and clean their own food frequently.

Are you objections reasonable considering Indonesia's status as a developing country?

 

[londo_edan]

DIA lurches out of the/his cage to completely misconstrue the point of my post - which was wish everyone a happy Eid holiday (and add that I'm squeamish about the sight of so many slaughtered animals).

But hey, once a net warrior, always a net warrior I guess.

 

[londo_edan]

"Another thing that it has become, is the showcase (gengsi). It's like showing off to the world your good deeds and how upstanding you are. "Did you hear? Pak X bought a whole bull! It was almost 1.000 kilo!" "

I believe that this is part of it in the cities, perhaps not out in the sticks. Those penned-up cattle in the streets of Jakarta were a sorry sight, for a whole range of different reasons. Gengsi is a good way of putting it.

 

[fastpitch17]

DIA lurches out of the/his cage to completely misconstrue the point of my post - which was wish everyone a happy Eid holiday (and add that I'm squeamish about the sight of so many slaughtered animals).

But hey, once a net warrior, always a net warrior I guess.

it would seem dan was responding to Jstar and not to you.

 

[tihzho]

Today here I am, very much in the city of Jakarta and I hear goats screaming in addition to the roosters I usually hear.

No one believes me in America.

 

[Scooterindo]

I actually agree with Dan - There really isn't a "nice way" to kill an animal, but that said I eat meat and don't intend to stop anytime soon like 99% of people I just don't care that much, as harsh as it sounds I think its true for all carnivores. People in the west have become too sensitized towards meat eating and I am sure they are so disconnected between the slaughter of the animal itself and that nice little cellophane and polystyrene packets in the meat display counter at the supermarket.

I especially like Eid Al Adhar due to the fact it fits my ethic of the many helping the few with free meat.

 

[Anglian]

Yes we are a bit sensitive, one of my Daughters jobs in the UK was to inspect slaughter houses, firstly she went off lamb, the way they were killed, then it was pork due to the fact a pig that was supposed to be dead was hoisted over a big vat to be bled, it wasn't dead struggled ended up falling into the vat,she go thrown out, never touched pork again, the final straw was, she said don't eat beef dad , there's something wrong with the cows, shortly after Mad cow disease announced, so that was beef off the menu, she does eat chicken occasionally , but not to happy about it, so this celebration is actually a good thing, it shows us where our food comes from. But not for the sensitive, and gives a living to some of the poorer

 

[londo_edan]

I actually agree with Dan - There really isn't a "nice way" to kill an animal, but that said I eat meat and don't intend to stop anytime soon like 99% of people I just don't care that much, as harsh as it sounds I think its true for all carnivores. People in the west have become too sensitized towards meat eating and I am sure they are so disconnected between the slaughter of the animal itself and that nice little cellophane and polystyrene packets in the meat display counter at the supermarket.

I especially like Eid Al Adhar due to the fact it fits my ethic of the many helping the few with free meat.

I don't believe that we as a race are carnivores, more like omnivores that can exist as herbivores with little effort.

Being a vegetarian has a multitude of benefits, its healthier, cheaper, kinder to the environment and lets all gods creatures go about their business.

Not proselytizing, just saying.

 

[jstar]

The rationale that I read here, is more like 'you can't have your cake and eat it too'; people are mixing up the discussion with vegetarian standpoints. Which I am not btw, on the contrary; I love meat and do have experience with hunting and preparing game.

Keep your eye on the ball; we (well, I was) are talking about anesthesia to minimize the suffering of the animal. To have your throat cut with a knife at full consciencesness and then bleed to death (while people are yelling and pushing you to the ground), is not comparable with being stunned first (which takes a microsecond).

And that is what the discussion in the west is about, should unexperienced people be able to slaughter at home without any precautions?

 

[fastpitch17]

And that is what the discussion in the west is about, should unexperienced people be able to slaughter at home without any precautions?

In the West, those that slaughter animals were either apprenticed into their position or trained by family members.

I grew up in a meat packing community. My Father was a meat cutter. I worked for them at 16 as a messenger running all over the plant. I did not see a kill floor that seemed inhumane except one. The kosher kill floor where the cows were hoisted up by their back legs while still alive and trying to kick and then pass by the rabbis who slit their throats with some really big long knives. That wasn't the inhumane part. I felt bad for the guys down below, blood pouring on them by the buckets while they squeegeed it into a central drain.

 

[waarmstrong]

Today here I am, very much in the city of Jakarta and I hear goats screaming in addition to the roosters I usually hear.

No one believes me in America.

I'm in America and I believe you. But I am a farm boy who held the old hens that ceased laying as Ma lopped off their heads. (Had to hang on until they bled out.) Killing and butchering was part of the normal routine down on the farm.

We transferred payment for a goat to our PakRT just yesterday. Its expected of those who can afford it and doing so without being asked cements your position as part of your neighborhood community. Its charity and like all charity it's good for the giver and well as the receiver. As a bule family, being accepted as part of the community is important, to me anyway.

 

[Anglian]

We bought a goat, they just brought it round to meet us, and say goodbye I suppose, anyway he gone back to the pen for the big day Monday, I think I will give his demise a miss

 

[fastpitch17]

I'm in America and I believe you. But I am a farm boy who held the old hens that ceased laying as Ma lopped off their heads. (Had to hang on until they bled out.) Killing and butchering was part of the normal routine down on the farm.

We transferred payment for a goat to our PakRT just yesterday. Its expected of those who can afford it and doing so without being asked cements your position as part of your neighborhood community. Its charity and like all charity it's good for the giver and well as the receiver. As a bule family, being accepted as part of the community is important, to me anyway.

We live in a middle class complex and I haven't seen one animal besides cats around here. Even as a Bule family, if we did something I doubt it would have any bearing on the neighborhood. We like to do the food staple thing to the Mosque we don't belong to and help out financially with the local festivals. I don't see where a goat or cow would make any difference. Of course, if the Chinese family next door wanted to gift a nice pork loin, I guess I wouldn't refuse.

 

[waarmstrong]

I guess complex is not the same as community.

 

[fastpitch17]

I guess complex is not the same as community.

No it is not since complex is neighborhood to us.

 

[Scooterindo]

We bought a goat, they just brought it round to meet us, and say goodbye I suppose, anyway he gone back to the pen for the big day Monday, I think I will give his demise a miss

I got back home from working away one year, arriving late in the evening, to find our Eid al Adhar goat happily munching its way through our front garden. Woke up late the next morning to find my kids, aged about 3 or 4 at the time, actually riding it round the garden. Not what you expect to come home to.

 

[Anglian]

Here's a tale of England, I lived in the country and my best mate had a goat as a pet, it's life wasn't idyllic as we practiced bull fighting with it, my mates Uncle decided that they should all have a holiday, I volunteered to look after the goat, but my mate said, no,it can house in the old bomb shelter with its food, so off they went, after a couple of days I thought I do everyone a favour and check on the goat, to my horror it was dead, all its feet sticking up in the air, it had eaten it's week supply of food in one go, I had no idea what to do, told my mum she had no idea, but the decision was made to leave it, when my pal came home he wasn't well pleased, but we dug a nice grave for it, he didn't keep goats again