Certificate non impediment for marriage

[Helpful Herbert]

If you are married abroad, you have to have a religious ceremony in a mosque in that country. Failing to do so would make the marriage unregistrable in Indonesia

I think this depends on which province or city you live in. I was able to do it in Jakarta Selatan, although it was over a decade ago. However the catatan sipil does retain the right to not allow it. It would definitely be interesting to hear someone's experience of having done this in the last 3 or so years, rather than just speculating.

 

[Helpful Herbert]

Well, things are not going well at all. All she can get is a letter from the village chief backed up by a letter from the KUA which is not acceptable. We beed a government letter.
So complicated there.

Have you been to the Indonesian embassy there yet? I'm pretty sure they are the ones that have to issue the letter.

 

[pantaiema]

I think this depends on which province or city you live in. I was able to do it in Jakarta Selatan, although it was over a decade ago. However the catatan sipil does retain the right to not allow it. It would definitely be interesting to hear someone's experience of having done this in the last 3 or so years, rather than just speculating.

Last year, the Supreme court issued a circular letter SE_2/2023 telling and giving guidance to the judges in the lower court that:

1. A valid marriage is a marriage that is carried out according to the laws of each religion and belief, in accordance with Article 2 paragraph (1) and Article 8 letter f of Law Number 1 of 1974 concerning Marriage.
2. The court does not grant a request to register a marriage between people of different religions and beliefs.

Previously, Dukcapil used to legalize interfaith marriages and issue marriage certificates similar to those for non-Muslim marriages. However, since the release of this circular letter, no such cases have been reported. They might be concerned that their actions could be deemed unlawful.

 

[Helpful Herbert]

And people wonder why Indonesia is still a third world country!

 

[marcus]

I guess this means that her father or older brother should be present at the ceremony , right ?

No. Just done in the mosque besides the civil ceremony.

I guess Indonesia requires a "Wali"/guardian (father, older brother,..) because the name of the Wali is stated in the Indonesian KUA's Marriage Book .

What will happen if in the specific Hong Kong's mosque where they marry , a Wali is not required ?

----------------------------

From https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3067457
Title : Marrying Without the Consent of the Wali (a Case Study of Pakistan) Compatibility of Pakistani Family Laws with UDHR
By Asmat Ali Khan , Nov 2017

... The Shafi’i, Maliki and Hanbali schools say that nikah entered into by a woman herself, without the permission of her wali, is invalid and void. However, the Hanafi ruling on the said matter is that a woman can enter into a marital contract by herself without the permission from her wali ...

 

[centurion]

I guess Indonesia requires a "Wali"/guardian (father, older brother,..) because the name of the Wali is stated in the Indonesian KUA's Marriage Book .

What will happen if in the specific Hong Kong's mosque where they marry , a Wali is not required ?

----------------------------

From https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3067457
Title : Marrying Without the Consent of the Wali (a Case Study of Pakistan) Compatibility of Pakistani Family Laws with UDHR
By Asmat Ali Khan , Nov 2017

... The Shafi’i, Maliki and Hanbali schools say that nikah entered into by a woman herself, without the permission of her wali, is invalid and void. However, the Hanafi ruling on the said matter is that a woman can enter into a marital contract by herself without the permission from her wali ...

In muslim Indonesian non-impediment letter wali's approval is already given, basically a permission to marry.

 

[marcus]

In muslim Indonesian non-impediment letter wali's approval is already given, basically a permission to marry.

Could you tell us from where you got this information ?

 

[centurion]

Could you tell us from where you got this information ?

It says in the forms when you apply for them.

 

[Bingbong]

Hi all,
thanks for the continued input. I will follow up with the results so that anyone else heading down this road might benifit,
So maybe I should explain more,
she is Muslim but we are getting married in a registry office in HK. That means we basically have to follow the same as the UK. Quite simple, except for her to get a letter of no impediment. This is not normally required in HK but for reasons we need one.
HK accept a letter from the KUA but not from the village chief where she lives. The KUA letter must not reference any document issued from the village chief. This is what we are trying to obtain now.
once married we will register it in the Indonesian consulate in HK.
Then follow their advice.
will let you know how this goes.
cheers

 

[pantaiema]

HK accept a letter from the KUA but not from the village chief where she lives. The KUA letter must not reference any document issued from the village chief. This is what we are trying to obtain now.
once married we will register it in the Indonesian consulate in HK.

This has been a common practice for quite some time. Most requests usually start at the RT/RW level, followed by the Kelurahan and then the Sub-district. I believe this happens because it allows them to shift the blame onto others if something goes wrong. It's reassuring to see that a reputable organization has stood up against this.

 

[marcus]

... she is Muslim but we are getting married in a registry office in HK ... once married we will register it in the Indonesian consulate in HK ...

Just in case you don't know : Without a religious marriage ceremony you may have problems to register your marriage in Indonesia (even if the Indonesian Consulate accepts to register your HK's marriage certificate) .

 

[Bingbong]

Have you been to the Indonesian embassy there yet? I'm pretty sure they are the ones that have to issue the letter.

unfortunately we are not in HK. Just decided to Marry there.

 

[centurion]

Just in case you don't know : Without a religious marriage ceremony you may have problems to register your marriage in Indonesia (even if the Indonesian Consulate accepts to register your HK's marriage certificate) .

This is correct. And if not recogonized in both countries, the marriage is basically not valid.

 

[Helpful Herbert]

unfortunately we are not in HK. Just decided to Marry there.

To be honest I don't think you're going to be able to get married without going to the Indonesian embassy, in my experience the embassy was the key part of the process. Does HK even have embassies now or are they just in Beijing?
You can perhaps do a kind of wedding ceremony in HK, but sign the papers in another country using the procedures of that country - maybe in the country where you live now.

 

[Balifrog]

To be honest I don't think you're going to be able to get married without going to the Indonesian embassy, in my experience the embassy was the key part of the process. Does HK even have embassies now or are they just in Beijing?
You can perhaps do a kind of wedding ceremony in HK, but sign the papers in another country using the procedures of that country - maybe in the country where you live now.

HKG has Indo embassy and consulate. You deal with the latter.
I am sure they are familiar with the process considering the number of Indonesians living in HKG, snd the number of weddings I saw during my 8 years there.
Then again, if none of you are HKG residents it may be a bit more complicated.

 

[Bingbong]

Hi Folks
So an update for those that are folling and those that might be following in my footsteps…
HKG is very easy to get married if both your status are already clear. No religious considerations needed.
Get an agent if you dont live in HKG to file the application. Be careful here, i paid way too much. Just follow the simple process on line and you are done.
Now,
In my case, i am divorced so had to provide the divorce papers plus translation if its not english or chinese. They are very strict on where and who sings and stamps the documents.
For my wife HKG wanted proof of no impediment to marry. This is not normally required. This she had to get locally in indonesia and where all the confusion starts.
HKG will not accept a letter from the local villiage. But to get a letter from the KUA we had to get a letter from the villiage head first. Then take that to the KUA. Even then they didn't want to do a letter and started asking for school leaving certificates and all sorts of non related crap. Eventually we got a letter. Had that translated officially and that was accepted.
Arrived in HKG and went for the pre arranged document check 2 days before the wedding. Once that was completed you go and get married at the venue you chose at the correct time and pay money of course.
After this we took the marriage cert to the high court to get it appostiled.
Prior to this we went to the Indo consulate, filled in the form and registered the marriage providing 2 photos each.
2 days later we collected an official document that states our marriage is registered in indonesia.
This is all we are doing unless someone complains that we need something else.
We are not going to live in indonesia and if there are any questions when visiting our marriage is registered and legal.
So thats it for now, the next steps are visas and visas etc. eventually we hope to get to the end of all this and can just enjoy life together.
If i get any more to add to this i will update.
Its a huge shame indonesia is so complicated but many countries are, especially my own but its a different complicated.. lol
Cheers to all of you and enjoy everything you can in life..

 

[Helpful Herbert]

Well done. And you don't have to change religion either.

 

[Bingbong]

Hi Folks I’m back!!
everything going well so far but i am in need of some more recommendations for assistance in Jakarta. we need an SKCK (police background check) with appostile.
we have an SKCK but it doesn’t have an appostile. so we need to engage a law firm that we can give power of attorney to act for us to collect a new SKCK and have it appostiled and sent to us.
has anyone had experience with this?
thanks again

 

[Shadrach]

Hi Folks
So an update for those that are folling and those that might be following in my footsteps…
HKG is very easy to get married if both your status are already clear. No religious considerations needed.
Get an agent if you dont live in HKG to file the application. Be careful here, i paid way too much. Just follow the simple process on line and you are done.
Now,
In my case, i am divorced so had to provide the divorce papers plus translation if its not english or chinese. They are very strict on where and who sings and stamps the documents.
For my wife HKG wanted proof of no impediment to marry. This is not normally required. This she had to get locally in indonesia and where all the confusion starts.
HKG will not accept a letter from the local villiage. But to get a letter from the KUA we had to get a letter from the villiage head first. Then take that to the KUA. Even then they didn't want to do a letter and started asking for school leaving certificates and all sorts of non related crap. Eventually we got a letter. Had that translated officially and that was accepted.
Arrived in HKG and went for the pre arranged document check 2 days before the wedding. Once that was completed you go and get married at the venue you chose at the correct time and pay money of course.
After this we took the marriage cert to the high court to get it appostiled.
Prior to this we went to the Indo consulate, filled in the form and registered the marriage providing 2 photos each.
2 days later we collected an official document that states our marriage is registered in indonesia.
This is all we are doing unless someone complains that we need something else.
We are not going to live in indonesia and if there are any questions when visiting our marriage is registered and legal.
So thats it for now, the next steps are visas and visas etc. eventually we hope to get to the end of all this and can just enjoy life together.
If i get any more to add to this i will update.
Its a huge shame indonesia is so complicated but many countries are, especially my own but its a different complicated.. lol
Cheers to all of you and enjoy everything you can in life..

I'm glad you were able to complete such a monumental task. It seems to me, getting married is a personal decision made by the couple. I guess same sex marriage is not allowed in Indonesia. It just doesn't seem right that the government can force this on people. What if they didn't want to marry? What if they don't follow a religion? Are they not allowed to live here? Seems oppressive to me!

 

[marcus]

... we need an SKCK with appostile.
we have an SKCK but it doesn’t have an appostile. so we need to engage a law firm that we can give power of attorney to act for us to collect a new SKCK and have it appostiled and sent to us.
has anyone had experience with this?

I once got an apostille for my marriage certificate (Buku Nikah) . For it I hired an online apostille agent through Shopee.co.id (searching for jasa legalisasi apostille) . You can request it online too at https://apostille.ahu.go.id/ .

As to get a new SKCK you probably need to go to Jakarta for fingerprints , I suggest you to get an apostille for the one you already have .