Food for thought

[Anglian]

It seems a great desire for Indonesians to open a restaurant, they open and close with regular monotony here, the fail rate seems to be about 90%, but Japanese restaurants seem quite successful

 

[Wisnu]

It seems a great desire for Indonesians to open a restaurant, they open and close with regular monotony here, the fail rate seems to be about 90%, but Japanese restaurants seem quite successful

Very interesting.
In my alumni WA groups, there’s discussion about restaurant/café business. Seem many of them moving forward. Frequently, Kick Andi feature success story of young entrepreneur in restaurant/cafe and food industry. Last week, featured somebody with more than 500 fried chicken outlet in less than 5 years. Of course not many people willing to expose their fail. So, those success story and WAG discussion is not a statistic.

Where you get the 90% figure?
I’m interested to know and would be happy to contact the surveyor.

 

[Anglian]

Well the 90% is from what I’ve seen in the Cirendue/ Ciputat area, there was two which had multiple cafe warungs, , one opposite Pondok Cabe Airport, that was only open 6 months and another multiple food street at the Ciputat opposite the supermarket, I just had this morning a leaflet for a pizzeria, I think that might be successful, a fish restaurant in Ciputat closed and has since been turned into a food court, but so far seems very quite, the restaurants that are operating have been here for several years, so I would think my guess of 90% isn’t too far off, unless you are selling something special, you have no chance, the Japanese sushi restaurant is usually packed,

 

[jstar]

Although I have no insight in that perceived percentage Anglian is talking about, he is right in his observation; they open and hype a restaurant where people need to queue and with soft openings and all the bells and whistles. Then after 6 months the hype is finished, they sell the place, and the new owners close the place 6 months to a year later. I can think of at least 20 places here close by over the past years.

About foreign food; as everywhere else in the world, Sushi and Korean are doing quite well. (Ramen not anymore) I also see quite some new burger places popping up, not really fast food.

And yes, fried chicken will always work.

 

[jstar]

Of course the copying behavior is also very strong in the food business; think of the pitta (shoarma) and martabak chains.

 

[jstar]

Bali......Chinese tell me the Chinese food there is better than in China.

Isn’t that true everywhere?

I also kind of like the Indian restaurants here. Better than in continental Europe (the UK is a class in itself of course).

@Wisnu: My wife doesn’t really appreciate the Indonesian restaurants in the Netherlands either. Weird taste and expensive. But I do like it; finally some meat on the sate and in the Babi Pangang and better Spekkoek (with real butter) and Pisang Goreng. Although nothing can beat the Nasi Goreng and Bihun (Miehoen) from the Kaki5 here.

 

[Anglian]

I once bought some meat balls in Amsterdam, yuk, never had them since, always reminded of the Tikus balls incident, some restaurants you just don’t know what’s on the menu

 

[Anglian]

A new restaurant has just opened, opposite one that shut down a few months ago, quite a bit of expenditure in its construction, really have to go some to recoup that, it’s also opposite a duck restaurant which is highly successful, so we will see, further up the hill a cafe type place opened and closed with regular monotone, it’s now a block of shops and a bit further on a Bali themed restaurant failed miserably, opposite that quite a big fish restaurant has just opened, and just before you get to the Atomic research center, a really unique restaurant has opened it’s a shipping container and it’s very successful, this is all in about 1 mile, I would think this small starch of road reflect parts of Jakarta, restaurants opening and closing, a considerable amount of money seems to be spent, one I recall was at the gates of Bali view complex, all bamboo construction, looked quite smart, closed down within 3 months, now the Honda motor cycle shop, even Domino pizza shut down, mind Pizza Hut is still going

 

[Anglian]

Oh just to add I was talking to my wife about the restaurants she said I missed two by the bridge which had closed

 

[steveandpenny]

I'e found that I love getting food off of carts or soup off of motorcycles. Some of the best food I've eaten here have been from carts. Most of the time I have no idea what I ordered and 90 % it' serious ( most of the time I still don' know what it is) . Now I've got to say about 10 % of the time I get something that has no business being in my mouth but thank God for the cats or dogs hanging around.
If I don' like it I'm out 10,000 about 1/5 of the cost of a coffee at Starbucks.

 

[Anglian]

Brave fellow steve

 

[Wisnu]

Although I have no insight in that perceived percentage Anglian is talking about, he is right in his observation; they open and hype a restaurant where people need to queue and with soft openings and all the bells and whistles. Then after 6 months the hype is finished, they sell the place, and the new owners close the place 6 months to a year later. I can think of at least 20 places here close by over the past years.

About foreign food; as everywhere else in the world, Sushi and Korean are doing quite well. (Ramen not anymore) I also see quite some new burger places popping up, not really fast food.

And yes, fried chicken will always work.

Probably in some area, but not what I observed in jalan transyogi cibubur and depok.
End of last year We went back home and still recognize many same restaurants there. Probably there was few restaurant closed but far less than 90% though I don't have any proper statistics data.

My relative's bakso restaurant has been running for almost two years. he plan to open another bigger outlet and asking me if I'd like to join. Honestly I'm not interested.

 

[jukung11]

I love studying Indonesian cuisine so I will focus the first part of my comments on Ponyexpress's two dishes.


Chicken Cordon Blue was likely invented, popularize, or named in the United States. It has a European rolleto design, but no known ties to the Cordon Blue school or any of its chefs.
Its popularity comes from it similarity to another Indonesia food, croquets. This is from the Dutch colonial influence It is very similar to an Indonesian food croquets, and tied to why it has gained in popularity through the country. The Indonesians that I have spoken to viewed it as an extension of the croquet.


Australian steak. This one is much more complicated. Culturally, Indonesia does not have a strong culinary tradition with beef. About a year or two ago when there was a beef shortage, I read that per capita Indonesians eat less than 2 kilograms per year. That was quadrupal what it was a few years before at less than 500 gram per person per year. Cattle in Indonesia has traditionally been a work animal for plowing rice paddies. When the cattle were slaughtered an eaten, they spent a lifetime of hard labor in a tropical climate with little medical care. The meat was tough and not very appetizing. Also, the animals had far less fat. I had a diagram once that I am trying to find of the Indonesian butchery of cattle. It was slightly different from the cuts of Western butchery. Almost all of the meat was designated for recipes that were either pureed (bakso) or slow cooked (soto, rawan, sop, rendang). One of the only meats that was grilled to well done that a person had to chew was the tenderloin was designated for sate. The concept of a slice of beef that you eat is generally not possible from most Indonesian cattle and not cultural. I believe calling "Australian steak" is probably appropriate.


Why? One of the factors that I believe that is effecting much of the change in dishes is access to technology that we in the west have taken for granted for a long time.
Let's use the example of steak.
When you slaughter a large mammal such as a cow, it can take days for it to go through rigor mortis and lose its stiffness. This takes being chilled for days to prevent the meat from spoiling. Indonesia is just starting to get a middle class and industrialize to the point were slaughter, chilling, and shipment let the production of a steak even be possible. If you study the history of western diets, these same dishes became a regular part of the diet with the technology that made them possible. In most cultures, meat consumed in that manor was mostly during the cooler times of year when the carcass could be hung without spoiling. I believe some of the history of this was covered in the documentary called steak revolution.


I also believe the interpretation of it is what makes it Indonesian. It is the first step in making something uniquely cultural. Many foods around the world have been appropriated, interpreted, and adapted and have become a defining dish for that culture. Lumpia was originally a Chinese. It is now Indonesian. We could go on all day about examples in other cultures. (sushi, bahn mi, pirogi, ravioli, pasta, etc.)

 

[jstar]

Chicken Cordon Blue was likely invented, popularize, or named in the United States.

The fact they use(d) the incorrect Blue instead of Bleu, says it all right? (That’s a déjà ahem...vous.) The Swiss cook will turn around in his grave. It had to be chicken here for the obvious reasons. (And always without real ham. Also, try to find veal here.)

Of course the success of something like Croquettes (kroketten) etc. is rather easy to explain, just like cooking everything well done. (My wife still shivers when she sees me eat a steak à point.) Deep frying simply kills most of the bacteria and unwanted ingredients. And it is simple, fast and cheap. The same for pork knucle they serve in those trendy ‘German’ restaurants btw. (It really should be oven roasted or even boiled.)

Rather interesting is eating at one of the restaurants of Toko Oen (Malang, Semarang), Dapur Babah* (Jalan Veteran Jakarta). Here you can see how a dish -introduced by the Dutch- could have evolved and be adapted to the local taste. The antiquated and almost unchanged interiors of these places are also quite nice.

*https://www.tuguhotels.com/restaurants/jakarta/dapurbabahelite/

 

[jstar]

1. Nachos (1940) - Invented by Ignacio "Nacho" Anaya in Piedras Negras, Mexico, in 1940.
2. Apple Crumble (1940s) - Became popular in Britain during World War II due to rationing.
3. Spaghetti Carbonara (1944) - Popularized in Rome after the arrival of American soldiers and their rations during WWII.
4. Currywurst (1949) - Invented by Herta Heuwer in Berlin.
5. Butter Chicken (1950s) - Originated in Delhi, India, by Kundan Lal Gujral, Kundan Lal Jaggi, and Thakur Dass.
6. Mongolian Barbecue (1951) - Created in Taiwan by Wu Zhaonan.
7. Shopska Salad (1955) - Created in Bulgaria by the Bulgarian tourism board.
8. Fartons (1960) - A traditional pastry from Alboraya, Spain, designed to be dipped in horchata.
9. Hawaiian Pizza (1962) - Invented by Sam Panopoulos in Canada.
10. Carpaccio (1963) - Created in Venice, Italy, by Giuseppe Cipriani.
11. Doner Kebab Sandwich (1960s) - Popularized in Germany by Turkish immigrants.
12. Tiramisu (1960s) - Originated in Treviso, Italy, though exact origins are debated.
13. Sticky Toffee Pudding (1960s) - Developed in Britain, credited to Francis Coulson and Robert Lee.
14. Uramaki (1960s) - Also known as inside-out sushi, developed in the US.
15. Banoffee Pie (1971) - Created by Nigel Mackenzie and Ian Dowding in East Sussex, England.
16. Chicken Tikka Masala (1970s) - Originated in the UK, with its exact origins being somewhat disputed.
17. General Tso’s Chicken (1970s) - Developed by Chef Peng Chang-kuei, popularized in New York City.
18. Pasta Primavera (1975) - Invented by Sirio Maccioni and Le Cirque's chefs in New York.
19. Tartiflette (1980s) - A modern dish based on traditional Savoyard recipes from the French Alps.
20. Chocolate Fondant (1981) - Often credited to Michel Bras in France.
21. Ciabatta (1982) - Created by Arnaldo Cavallari in Adria, Italy.
22. Bubble Tea (1980s) - Originated in Taiwan by mixing tea with fruit or milk and tapioca pearls.
23. Salmon Sushi (1980s) - Introduced to Japan through Norwegian initiatives.
24. Blended Iced Coffee (1980s) - Popularized in the US by Starbucks.

 

[Shadrach]

I love studying Indonesian cuisine so I will focus the first part of my comments on Ponyexpress's two dishes.


Chicken Cordon Blue was likely invented, popularize, or named in the United States. It has a European rolleto design, but no known ties to the Cordon Blue school or any of its chefs.
Its popularity comes from it similarity to another Indonesia food, croquets. This is from the Dutch colonial influence It is very similar to an Indonesian food croquets, and tied to why it has gained in popularity through the country. The Indonesians that I have spoken to viewed it as an extension of the croquet.


Australian steak. This one is much more complicated. Culturally, Indonesia does not have a strong culinary tradition with beef. About a year or two ago when there was a beef shortage, I read that per capita Indonesians eat less than 2 kilograms per year. That was quadrupal what it was a few years before at less than 500 gram per person per year. Cattle in Indonesia has traditionally been a work animal for plowing rice paddies. When the cattle were slaughtered an eaten, they spent a lifetime of hard labor in a tropical climate with little medical care. The meat was tough and not very appetizing. Also, the animals had far less fat. I had a diagram once that I am trying to find of the Indonesian butchery of cattle. It was slightly different from the cuts of Western butchery. Almost all of the meat was designated for recipes that were either pureed (bakso) or slow cooked (soto, rawan, sop, rendang). One of the only meats that was grilled to well done that a person had to chew was the tenderloin was designated for sate. The concept of a slice of beef that you eat is generally not possible from most Indonesian cattle and not cultural. I believe calling "Australian steak" is probably appropriate.


Why? One of the factors that I believe that is effecting much of the change in dishes is access to technology that we in the west have taken for granted for a long time.
Let's use the example of steak.
When you slaughter a large mammal such as a cow, it can take days for it to go through rigor mortis and lose its stiffness. This takes being chilled for days to prevent the meat from spoiling. Indonesia is just starting to get a middle class and industrialize to the point were slaughter, chilling, and shipment let the production of a steak even be possible. If you study the history of western diets, these same dishes became a regular part of the diet with the technology that made them possible. In most cultures, meat consumed in that manor was mostly during the cooler times of year when the carcass could be hung without spoiling. I believe some of the history of this was covered in the documentary called steak revolution.


I also believe the interpretation of it is what makes it Indonesian. It is the first step in making something uniquely cultural. Many foods around the world have been appropriated, interpreted, and adapted and have become a defining dish for that culture. Lumpia was originally a Chinese. It is now Indonesian. We could go on all day about examples in other cultures. (sushi, bahn mi, pirogi, ravioli, pasta, etc.)

I have yet to see a so called Australian steak, with any decent amount of fat marbling. The steak, I have seen, is still far from the delicious cuts in the States. My mouth waters, thinking about the rib eye, porterhouse, T bone, filet mignon! Oh what a luxury it would be, to be able to buy cuts like this here! I know Australia has this, as well as Japan. Why is it the cuts I see sent here are very lean and tough? Is there a store in Bali, that sells the cuts I mentioned before?

 

[fastpitch17]

I have yet to see a so called Australian steak, with any decent amount of fat marbling. The steak, I have seen, is still far from the delicious cuts in the States. My mouth waters, thinking about the rib eye, porterhouse, T bone, filet mignon! Oh what a luxury it would be, to be able to buy cuts like this here! I know Australia has this, as well as Japan. Why is it the cuts I see sent here are very lean and tough? Is there a store in Bali, that sells the cuts I mentioned before?

So buy US beef or grade A Australian. There is always wagu. Jeesh, If I can buy it here I'm sure you can find it if you actually wanted to and not just complain about it.

 

[jstar]

The steak, I have seen, is still far from the delicious cuts in the States. My mouth waters, thinking about the rib eye, porterhouse, T bone, filet mignon! Oh what a luxury it would be, to be able to buy cuts like this here!

You get what you pay for. If you go to the Byrd House in Sanur for instance, you get a very nice Rib-Eye. But you have to fork over 1,5 juta (for 2).

The prices in Boy’N’Cow, one of the best steakhouses on the island, are even higher.

NB: About butchers; I heard quite some positive stories about Oz-Britts in Kuta. Haven’t tried them myself.

 

[atlantis]

So buy US beef or grade A Australian. There is always wagu. Jeesh, If I can buy it here I'm sure you can find it if you actually wanted to and not just complain about it.

Re: "grade A australian". Be aware that the australian classification for exported meat in Indonesia, has it appears on the impoted cartons, is complex and often misleading.

If "A" means in the consumer mind "top grade", for australian imported meat in Indonesia "A" is used for the oldest category of meat, cows which were 8 permanent teeth or about 4 years old. When it comes to prime cuts, you may end up being very disappointed, particularly with ribeye or striploin/sirloin.

If you can get a look at the label on the cartons the meat was imported in, stick to meat classified "Y" or "YG" which came from younger animals, at the difference of those classified "grade A which are older animals .

I trade a lot of "grade A" Australian meat and sometimes it's not that far from the local stuff when it comes to "tenderness".

On the Indonesian market, if you can get US beef then you are rarely disappointed. It's on average higher than the Australian beef but at least you get something decent for your money.

 

[fastpitch17]

Australia doesn't have a national grading guideline or regulation. It is up to the meat packing companies to grade their own beef. Australia for the most part has range/grass fed cattle but certain packers over the last 20 or so years have been offering some feed lot, corn fed cattle that could compare with US Choice but from my experience has much more flavor than the current US packing products. I remember the first time I tried it. I was reminded of meat when I was younger. I imagine this beef is for commercial Australian only distribution since it would be in limited supply and costly compared to the grass fed offerings.

I remember Walker Meat bringing some to Guam for me to try at a food show. We represented them in the Pacific Islands. Walkers was/is the meat company that supplies McDonalds burger patties. They have a plant dedicated to only McDonalds patties. They will sell no patties to anyone else. We could buy trimmings and grind our own but that was the extent of it. Trimmings came from a different Walkers plant.