Working at a school on a spouse sponsored KITAS

CalamityDisko

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I'm on a spouse sponsored KITAS working for an SPK school. The school has to apply for an IMTA for me to be able to work legally. They also specifically advised me not to advertise the work I do for the family business as it could get me into trouble with immigration.

Moderation note:

This post was originally in this thread: Working on a spouse KITAS.
 
I'm on a spouse sponsored KITAS working for an SPK school. The school has to apply for an IMTA for me to be able to work legally. They also specifically advised me not to advertise the work I do for the family business as it could get me into trouble with immigration.


Who specifically advised you?
 
I'm on a spouse sponsored KITAS working for an SPK school. The school has to apply for an IMTA for me to be able to work legally. They also specifically advised me not to advertise the work I do for the family business as it could get me into trouble with immigration.

Hi Calamity, welcome to the forum.

As BA asks, who are "they" and what kind of work do you do for "the family business"? Do you mean your spouse / spouse's family? Is there any connection between this "work for family business" and your working for the school?

As for working for a school under a WNI spouse-sponsored KITAS and the school applying for an IMTA for you on that basis, I would also be interested in opinion or "fact" about the legality of this.

As my understanding goes so far: under the Immigration law of 2011, a foreigner married to a WNI and on spouse-sponsored KITAS or KITAP "has the right to work to support him or herself and family" ... however, under current laws and regulation of Manpower, any company (eg PT or yayasan) (still) must have IMTA issued by Manpower to legally employ any foreigner, and under current regulation of Immigration, a foreigner is technically (still) not supposed to work under any kind of visa or stay permit except for "kitas tenaga kerja".

Whether an IMTA can be issued for a foreigner residing under a spouse sponsored stay permit would then be the first important question to be answered ... although in the other recent thread in this section, Dafluff has put forward the idea that the law means a foreigner has the right to employment, "period", and that such regulations as otherwise apply to TKA therefore would not / do not apply to such foreigners on spouse sponsored stay permits.

I am not at all sure whether this interpretation is correct, but it would certainly be good news for many foreigners married to WNI if it is true.
 
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I am interested to hear more of your story.

Around a year and a half ago I applied to English First after seeing an advert for teachers. I told them I was on a spouse sponsored KITAS, as I thought I would be able to get straight in without the degree requirements that TKA's have to go through. I received a reply saying I would have to have a English degree, and they apply for a KITAS and IMTA.

I kindly explained to them that as I was on a spouse sponsored KITAS already, it is not possible or necessary for an IMTA, as I am not TKA, so that does not apply to me. I am simply a resident of Indonesia on a spouse sponsored KITAS which gives me the right to work.

I received no reply. The problem in Indonesia is that things are not communicated properly. We as spouses of Indonesian citizens have the right to work, and IMTA can not and does not apply to us, as it would violate our right to support our family. I expect a lot of companies do not understand this and all they know/have been told about is TKA.
 
Moderation note:

This was originally in this thread: Working on a spouse KITAS. For better clarity, I moved it to its own thread. I posted a note there but I should have also posted here to avoid confusion. My bad.
 
I've been told numerous times, by people knowledgeable about these things that SPK schools, or any schools for that matter cannot apply for an IMTA for someone on a Spouse sponsored KITAS or KITAP.
 
Based on The immigration law no 6 year 2011 Clause 61:
"Pemegang Izin Tinggal terbatas sebagaimana dimaksud dalam Pasal 52 huruf e dan huruf f dan pemegang Izin Tinggal Tetap sebagaimana dimaksud dalam Pasal 54 ayat (1) huruf b dan huruf d dapat melakukan pekerjaan dan/atau usaha untuk memenuhi kebutuhan hidup dan/atau keluarganya."
Regulation link:
http://www.imigrasi.go.id/phocadownloadpap/Undang-Undang/uu-6-tahun-2011.pdf

There may be some cases which is not synchron between law Department of Immigration and Department of Manpower
Here is video clip discussion of Article 61 of the Immigration Law No.6 / 2011 by Mr Firdaus AMIR, SH., MH. - Director of Residence Permit and Immigration Status in 2012:
https://www.facebook.com/apriliastreit1/videos/10151118463726921/

You actually can discuss with the agent and your company to apply for IMTA under your company and KITAS under your spouse.

Additional info:
After 2 years of marriage a couple WNA obtain Permanent Residence Permits (ITAP) before will be given a Limited Stay Permit (ITAS) and does not require a work visa to be able to make a living and support his family in Indonesia.

Likewise, the child of a mixed marriage if after the deadline Duo Nationality * (18 years old) decided to foreign nationals, they get ITAP and can work in Indonesia without a Work Permit.
 
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I've been told numerous times, by people knowledgeable about these things that SPK schools, or any schools for that matter cannot apply for an IMTA for someone on a Spouse sponsored KITAS or KITAP.
It is technically true, as long as the foreign applicant is a holder of a spouse sponsored ITAS/ITAP.

It is easy to understand and this is something which I explained in the past in another forum. It boils down to something which is often overlooked or not well understood. Foreigners sponsored by an Indonesian spouse are NOT foreign workers (Tenaga Kerja Asing) and therefore can NOT/should NOT be subjected to an IMTA (which means Izin Mempekerjakan Tenaga Asing or foreign worker employment permit).

UU 13/2003 (The Manpower Law) states the following in its article 1:

"Tenaga kerja asing adalah warga negara asing pemegang visa dengan maksud bekerja di wilayah Indonesia".


It means that in order to be considered as a TKA you need to have a visa/permit which has been specifically issued for the purpose of working. In order to know what are the visas/permits which are issued for the purpose of working, one needs to refer this time to the Immigration Law (UU 6/2011).

This law clearly states (cf elucidation of art 39 UU 6/2011 and art. 61 UU 6/2011) that visas/permits issued in the frame of family reunion (foreign spouse of WNI who hold an ITAS/ITAP sponsored by their WNI spouse are part of them) are NOT issued for the purpose of working (Source: elucidation of art 39 UU 6/2011) BUT that holders of ITAS/ITAP sponsored by a WNI spouse can do business or work in order to provide for their family.

Though we are not legally considered as Foreign Workers (those concerned by an IMTA), we still have the right to work and infringing on our right or limiting it in a way that ANY of us would be placed in a situation that he/she can not provide for his/her family could have those who have drafted said limit in troubles. .

It is subtle but it is important to understand the above. Nakertrans should NOT (albeit they sometimes do it/have done it) issue an IMTA to school employing foreign spouse sponsored by their Indonesian wife/husband because they can NOT be legally considered TKA. They should request the foreign applicant to be sponsored by the school first.

However it also means that if Nakertrans officially forbids a school to employ a foreign applicant sponsored by his/her WNI spouse, or force them to change sponsor, Nakertrans infringe the rights of said applicant (cf art. 61 UU 6/2011). Changing sponsor, from a spouse to a school is not a benign affair and you loose a lot of Rights. Forcing you to do so in order to work IS a limit to your right to provide for your family while being sponsored by an Indonesian spouse. This is NOT something one should accept. This is also why Nakertrans is uncomfortable to issue a written statement on the matter.

I have read many time that the situation of work for WNA spouse is a "grey area". This is bullshit and it contributes to obfuscate one thing: we have the right to work and no regulation of higher hierarchy than UU 6/2011 forbids us to do so or limit the scope of our right.

So basically, yes, you are right to say that a school cannot apply for an IMTA for someone on a Spouse sponsored KITAS or KITAP. This is not due to the fact that s/he wouldn't have the right to work, but just because this category of people can not be considered as TKA as per art.1 UU 13/2003 and that IMTA concerns ONLY TKA.

The interesting question that, having read the above, one may want to ask is: "Can a foreigner sponsored by a WNI spouse WORK in a school without an IMTA?". Unfortunately, if s/he intends to work as a formal teacher, the answer is also no due to the regulation concerning issuance of Izin Pendidik for foreigners (RPTKA validated by Nakertrans is one of the document to be submitted).
 
I'm on a spouse sponsored KITAS working for an SPK school. The school has to apply for an IMTA for me to be able to work legally. They also specifically advised me not to advertise the work I do for the family business as it could get me into trouble with immigration.
This is another interesting point and one has to be very careful with it.

If one is sponsored by a WNI wife/husband, one has little limits when it comes to the type of function/jabatan he has.

To take a personal example, I cumulate many functions in our company. Depending on the time of the day I can be the purchasing manager, the marketing manager, the warehouse head, the financial controller, one of the drivers or, more simply, a buruh downloading containers and carrying piles of fucking heavy sacks of whatever we buy/sell.

I can do all of that that because I have no IMTA and am not legally fitting in the super regulated frame of the TKAs. I don't have to submit a special type of cred to prove that I have the required diplomas to pikul my sacks of rice though I have much more than the 5 years of experience imposed to TKAs. In this, I could be considered an expert.

I also do not have to work only in specific location listed in my company's RPTKA and IMTA. I work everywhere, anywhere where there are business for us. It is Manado, it is Bitung, it is Surabaya, it is Jakarta, it is Ternate. As long as there is anything to buy or to sell I can be there.

Now, if tomorrow, I decide that my dream has always been to be a TKA, I would be screwed: TKAs can not work in several function or several location (unless specified otherwise in the RPTKA).

This is something to understand because once you have agreed to be sponsored by a company you can not say "I am married to a WNI therefore I can do business on the side to provide for the family". It is NOT true. You can do (multiple) business IF your residency permit is SPONSORED by a WNI spouse. Once you renounce this sponsorship you renounce a right which is almost not limited (so far).

In another forum I have often said that many of us married to an Indonesian have very little interest in having our right to work regulated. I am personally definitively not in a hurry and I am pretty certain that, the day it will happen, I will start the procedure to become Indonesian.
 
I told them I was on a spouse sponsored KITAS, as I thought I would be able to get straight in without the degree requirements that TKA's have to go through. I received a reply saying I would have to have a English degree, and they apply for a KITAS and IMTA.
They were correct. As a foreign spouse of a WNA you do not need an IMTA but in order to employ you as a teacher they will need a Izin pendidik dan tenaga kependidikan asing issued by depdiknas and for this, they will not only need to submit an English degree but also the proof of an RPTKA having been submitted.

Same if you would like to be a doktor or a lawyer for example. We could imagine that you could get away without an IMTA, but the fact that you are married with an Indonesian wouldn't exempt you of the legal requirements of these specific professions.
 
The interesting question that, having read the above, one may want to ask is: "Can a foreigner sponsored by a WNI spouse WORK in a school without an IMTA?". Unfortunately, if s/he intends to work as a formal teacher, the answer is also no due to the regulation concerning issuance of Izin Pendidik for foreigners (RPTKA validated by Nakertrans is one of the document to be submitted).

Could you expend a bit more on this because I feel that it is quite critical.
 
It is technically true, as long as the foreign applicant is a holder of a spouse sponsored ITAS/ITAP.

It is easy to understand and this is something which I explained in the past in another forum. It boils down to something which is often overlooked or not well understood. Foreigners sponsored by an Indonesian spouse are NOT foreign workers (Tenaga Kerja Asing) and therefore can NOT/should NOT be subjected to an IMTA (which means Izin Mempekerjakan Tenaga Asing or foreign worker employment permit).

UU 13/2003 (The Manpower Law) states the following in its article 1:

"Tenaga kerja asing adalah warga negara asing pemegang visa dengan maksud bekerja di wilayah Indonesia".


It means that in order to be considered as a TKA you need to have a visa/permit which has been specifically issued for the purpose of working. In order to know what are the visas/permits which are issued for the purpose of working, one needs to refer this time to the Immigration Law (UU 6/2011).

This law clearly states (cf elucidation of art 39 UU 6/2011 and art. 61 UU 6/2011) that visas/permits issued in the frame of family reunion (foreign spouse of WNI who hold an ITAS/ITAP sponsored by their WNI spouse are part of them) are NOT issued for the purpose of working (Source: elucidation of art 39 UU 6/2011) BUT that holders of ITAS/ITAP sponsored by a WNI spouse can do business or work in order to provide for their family.

Though we are not legally considered as Foreign Workers (those concerned by an IMTA), we still have the right to work and infringing on our right or limiting it in a way that ANY of us would be placed in a situation that he/she can not provide for his/her family could have those who have drafted said limit in troubles. .

It is subtle but it is important to understand the above. Nakertrans should NOT (albeit they sometimes do it/have done it) issue an IMTA to school employing foreign spouse sponsored by their Indonesian wife/husband because they can NOT be legally considered TKA. They should request the foreign applicant to be sponsored by the school first.

However it also means that if Nakertrans officially forbids a school to employ a foreign applicant sponsored by his/her WNI spouse, or force them to change sponsor, Nakertrans infringe the rights of said applicant (cf art. 61 UU 6/2011). Changing sponsor, from a spouse to a school is not a benign affair and you loose a lot of Rights. Forcing you to do so in order to work IS a limit to your right to provide for your family while being sponsored by an Indonesian spouse. This is NOT something one should accept. This is also why Nakertrans is uncomfortable to issue a written statement on the matter.

I have read many time that the situation of work for WNA spouse is a "grey area". This is bullshit and it contributes to obfuscate one thing: we have the right to work and no regulation of higher hierarchy than UU 6/2011 forbids us to do so or limit the scope of our right.

So basically, yes, you are right to say that a school cannot apply for an IMTA for someone on a Spouse sponsored KITAS or KITAP. This is not due to the fact that s/he wouldn't have the right to work, but just because this category of people can not be considered as TKA as per art.1 UU 13/2003 and that IMTA concerns ONLY TKA.

The interesting question that, having read the above, one may want to ask is: "Can a foreigner sponsored by a WNI spouse WORK in a school without an IMTA?". Unfortunately, if s/he intends to work as a formal teacher, the answer is also no due to the regulation concerning issuance of Izin Pendidik for foreigners (RPTKA validated by Nakertrans is one of the document to be submitted).


So what would constitute a type of "informal" work that one could do in / for a school, without requirement of RPTKA / Izin Pendidik / IMTA / KITAS tenaga kerja, and be remunerated for such work or contribution by the school or it's foundation?

Maybe, for example, as "consultant"? One practical example of this sort of work would be, as a "foreign language expert" (native speaker of English or otherwise qualified as fluent - TOEFL, etc - ), providing services of consulting, proofreading, editing of all communications in English - which in a school such as SPK are quite voluminous - advising on syntax, vocabulary, etiqette / form and other linguistic and cultural aspects in communications, advising on best practices in recruiting actual TKA (such as teachers) to the school ... etc?

Would such a role qualify as one for which the school or foundation could compensate the WNA financially for its benefit from such sevices, but not requiring IMTA?

If so, the WNA could exercise his or her right to support his / her family and him / herself in Indonesia in such a way, and the school or foundation (or indeed another type fo company or organization) could benefit in a way which would justify compensation, and neither party would be beholden to the government in terms of application for IMTA etc, nor in violation of regulations which would, as mentioned, apply concerning employment of WNA as teachers?
 
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Could you expend a bit more on this because I feel that it is quite critical.

In short there are equal laws/regulations for the employment of teachers (or other professionals) that mean Joe Bloggs with no qualifications & experience cannot just say - ok I am going to be a teacher.
A foreigner wishing to teach in Indonesia has to meet the requirements of credentials & experience stated in the relevant law.
 
Originally Posted by atlantis
The interesting question that, having read the above, one may want to ask is: "Can a foreigner sponsored by a WNI spouse WORK in a school without an IMTA?". Unfortunately, if s/he intends to work as a formal teacher, the answer is also no due to the regulation concerning issuance of Izin Pendidik for foreigners (RPTKA validated by Nakertrans is one of the document to be submitted).


El Goretto said:
Could you expend a bit more on this because I feel that it is quite critical.

In my understanding, it means that in order to be employed as a formal teacher, a WNA is subject to approval of DikNas ('izin Pendidik), which follows the issuance of RPTKA as he said (the "TKA" is clearly for 'tukang kerja asing). Therefore, there is no getting around the necessity of an IMTA for such employment, and if IMTA cannot be applied to WNA on spousal KITAS ... dead end. (I am not sure whether this applies equally to language training schools as to "regular" schools, but I would guess so.)

However, if the employment were of a different nature and purpose than as a classroom teacher, it may not carry such requirement(s). Atlantis will surely correct this if I've got it wrong.
 
In short there are equal laws/regulations for the employment of teachers (or other professionals) that mean Joe Bloggs with no qualifications & experience cannot just say - ok I am going to be a teacher.
A foreigner wishing to teach in Indonesia has to meet the requirements of credentials & experience stated in the relevant law.

So is the answer to the question: Can a foreigner sponsored by a WNI spouse WORK in a school without an IMTA?

A. No, no matter what
B. Yes, as long as the foreigner meets the requirements for foreigners teaching in Indonesia

Because Atlantis' post did not seem to make the distinction and seemed more like a solid "no".
 
Originally Posted by atlantis




In my understanding, it means that in order to be employed as a formal teacher, a WNA is subject to approval of DikNas ('izin Pendidik), which follows the issuance of RPTKA as he said (the "TKA" is clearly for 'tukang kerja asing). Therefore, there is no getting around the necessity of an IMTA for such employment, and if IMTA cannot be applied to WNA on spousal KITAS ... dead end. (I am not sure whether this applies equally to language training schools as to "regular" schools, but I would guess so.)

However, if the employment were of a different nature and purpose than as a classroom teacher, it may not carry such requirement(s). Atlantis will surely correct this if I've got it wrong.

Ok, clearly there are different understandings (yours and Bad_Azz's seem different). Hopefully Atlantis can clarify.
 
So what would constitute a type of "informal" work that one could do in / for a school, without requirement of RPTKA / Izin Pendidik / IMTA / KITAS tenaga kerja, and be remunerated for such work or contribution by the school or it's foundation?

Maybe, for example, as "consultant"? One practical example of this sort of work would be, as a "foreign language expert" (native speaker of English or otherwise qualified as fluent - TOEFL, etc - ), providing services of consulting, proofreading, editing of all communications in English - which in a school such as SPK are quite volumionous - advising on syntax, vocabulary, etiqette / form and other linguistic and cultural aspects in communications, advising on best practices in recruiting actual TKA (such as teachers) to the school ... etc?

Would such a role qualify as one for which the school or foundation could compensate the WNA financially for its benefit from such sevices, but not requiring IMTA?

If so, the WNA could exercise his or her right to support his / her family and him / herself in Indonesia in such a way, and the school or foundation (or indeed another type fo company or organization) could benefit in a way which would justify compensation, and neither party would be beholden to the government in terms of application for IMTA etc, nor in violation of regulations which would, as mentioned, apply concerning employment of WNA as teachers?

I would think that an element of common sense comes into play (yeah- I know, not a lot of common sense out there these days)
But look at it this way - if there are rules governing the employment of people for specialised professions (regardless of what nationality they are) then they are likely to be in the avoid-it list.
Medical, Legal, Teaching, Engineering, Pharmaceutical etc... are the ones that spring to mind for me.
I would say that for those who want to remain in the more specialised corporate fold with their PGSE / teaching certificates and degrees etc., and have work contracts- go the TKA/IMTA route, those who are less specialised but more flexible, stick with the spouse sponsorship.


I would say consultant, tutor, language specialist, proofreader, editor etc. works ok- for a freelancer/small family business,on the spouse sponsorship.

So to my way of thinking say Mr Squirrel sets up a little biz selling office services- including private English tuition or editing/proofreading etc.
Mrs Squirrel can help out with him in said business, in areas she is able to- be that doing the books, or the editing or the tuition.
At the same time Mr & Mrs squirrel can have an online selling business that Mrs S bakes cakes for.
They can also own a warung that is a cafe too & that cafe can have an English club that meets at set hours & Mrs Squirrel can attend the club and hold conversations with the members, to help them improve their English. On top of that they could also own a kost and Mrs Squirrel could deal with the bookings , laundry, cleaning, accounts etc. too... (Very busy Squirrels lol).
So (correct me if I am wrong) there are lots of available options to play the system and remain legitimate.
 
So is the answer to the question: Can a foreigner sponsored by a WNI spouse WORK in a school without an IMTA?

A. No, no matter what
B. Yes, as long as the foreigner meets the requirements for foreigners teaching in Indonesia

Because Atlantis' post did not seem to make the distinction and seemed more like a solid "no".

the way I see it = nope...(not as a teacher) however it seems that dep nakertrans has been permitting it by issuing IMTAs to those sponsored by the spouse if they meet the professional requirements.
Yes - in an unregulated role.

So, the status quo seems to benefit everyone except perhaps dep nakertrans... but if they continue to issue work permits to spouse sponsored ITAS/ITAP holders then they are getting their pound of flesh in the shape of the dollar donation every year, which in reality makes for few waves in the system... and could be an area where legislation might clarify it all- but not suit anyone.
(does that make sense?)
 
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Ok, clearly there are different understandings (yours and Bad_Azz's seem different). Hopefully Atlantis can clarify.


No, I d on't think that they are different. As BA and I have both said, there are regulatory requirements and qualifications which must be met for the approval and employment of foreigners as teachers however, I don't know of anything in Indonesian law saying that "guru kelas" is the only role or function in which a school or its foundation could see reason to employ a WNA.

If WNA do not require IMTA to work for someone, then as long as they are NOT employed in a capacity which WOULD require IMTA as part of a process of professional qualification, they SHOULD be permitted to work in such capacity without the IMTA.

In other words: one has to meet certain and particular qualifications to be accepted and employed as a teacher, but other capacities may not have such requirements, and teaching is not the only capacity in which one can be employed in or by a school. If the school or foundation sees the need and desirability of employing a WNA under another capacity, and if it is a capacity which may require certain skills a foreigner may have, then why can't they do so? Please provide the answer Here: _________________.
 
I would think that an element of common sense comes into play (yeah- I know, not a lot of common sense out there these days)
But look at it this way - if there are rules governing the employment of people for specialised professions (regardless of what nationality they are) then they are likely to be in the avoid-it list.
Medical, Legal, Teaching, Engineering, Pharmaceutical etc... are the ones that spring to mind for me.
I would say that for those who want to remain in the more specialised corporate fold with their PGSE / teaching certificates and degrees etc., and have work contracts- go the TKA/IMTA route, those who are less specialised but more flexible, stick with the spouse sponsorship.


I would say consultant, tutor, language specialist, proofreader, editor etc. works ok- for a freelancer/small family business,on the spouse sponsorship.

So to my way of thinking say Mr Squirrel sets up a little biz selling office services- including private English tuition or editing/proofreading etc.
Mrs Squirrel can help out with him in said business, in areas she is able to- be that doing the books, or the editing or the tuition.
At the same time Mr & Mrs squirrel can have an online selling business that Mrs S bakes cakes for.
They can also own a warung that is a cafe too & that cafe can have an English club that meets at set hours & Mrs Squirrel can attend the club and hold conversations with the members, to help them improve their English. On top of that they could also own a kost and Mrs Squirrel could deal with the bookings , laundry, cleaning, accounts etc. too... (Very busy Squirrels lol).
So (correct me if I am wrong) there are lots of available options to play the system and remain legitimate.

Okay. But let me -again - try to make clear what I am talking about in my last three posts above this:

1) It is NOT about being employed as a teacher;

2) It IS about being employed by a school or its foundation (not as working in one's own "family business")

and the rest as already outlined in my posts.

So what I am interested in for my particular example is not the "common sense" answer (no offense) but the best answer which can be provided regarding what may or may not be allowable (as in legally permissible) under existing law and regulation.

In other words, I am suggesting that the example I gave is "one of the possible options to play the system and remain legitimate", and I am asking for the best opinions available as to whether it is thought to be the case.
 

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