Warning from US State Department

[centurion]

As I said they were failed by their leaders and should have accepted a 2 state solution (which no longer is possible due to all the settlers). Saying to them "too bad" doesnt solve anything now.

Settllers would ressetle again. All Jews moved from Gaza in 2005-6 by the order of Israeli government. Gaza is etno-state. New settlers in West Bank would move as well. Some Israelis, and after latest terrot attack, probably majority are against two state solution, because they could come in position of having ISIS-style sovereign state as a neighbour. In that case they could not intervene as now, and they would have officially to declare a war, and the new sovereign state would have right to enter in defense alliances with other troublemaking countries (Iran, North Korea, Russia, Syria, and others).

Noted about your view on Bin Laden approach - I think the issue in Gaza is that Hamas is supported by the majority in there and I dont think you should aim kill all Hamas supporters. I'm Irish and lots of nice people in the north supported the IRA when they were doing horrible things because they saw no other way to achieve their aims (there are still lots of paramilitaries on both sides active in the north of Ireland to this day - their violence is contained because of the political routes open to them and having more fairness in the society nowadays).

IRA looks like humanitarian organisation comparing to Hamas. They did not manually butchered innocent people. Gaza has no future with Hamas. Hamas is not fighting for Palestinians, but for erradication of Israel and genocide full Attila Hun style. It is in their charter. If Palestinians in Gaza cannot articulate trough others, it is than their problem.

Edited to add - I do not have a problem with the existence of Israel (you suggested that - I dont understand why you assume that I want Israel to stop existing simply because I have sympathy for Palestinians??? Ive visited Israel, I have friends there, some Israelis share my sympathies!) but I have an issue with the way they have behaved regarding the people whose land they now own - there has been no long-term thinking regarding what happens to Palestinians - when Palestinian refugees entered nearby countries they have pretty much-caused chaos so there is nowhere for them to go now. There needs to be more fairness in how the land is shared. I support a 2 state solution but I think it is impossible and I am rather hopeless about it all.

Hamas does not want two state sollution and they do not care about land issues. They simply want erradication of Israel, as they have shown two weeks agi. They killed in 5-7 hours more than 1.000 people. Terrorossm is why no Arab country wants Palestinian refugees. Egyptians consider them terrorist-prone and do not allow their fellow muslims to take shelter in Egypt. Hezbollah, another Palestinian outled destroyed Lebanon, while in Jordan PLO tried to topple the king that gave them shelter during Black September, and he expelled them as well.

 

[centurion]

It is interesting how fast the population of Palestinians in Gaza has grown. 50 years ago it was about 300,000, now it is about 2.2m. The fertility rate 50 years ago was over 7. Now it is 3.4 which is still going to lead to more population growth. Half of the population is under 18.
One would think that being trapped in a big open air prison one's whole life would discourage people from having children being born into the same hopeless situation. But maybe that is a Western way of thinking, and demography may be their ultimate path to (a kind of) victory.

For the record, Israelis have also a lot of children (2.9)

 

[snpark]

For the record, Israle has also a lot of children (2.9)

Where?
Does that include every first born son ?

I think Palestinian has 2.9 because one has his arm blown off by Hamas

 

[Bob]

The only way to combat Hamas and Hezbollah is to choke them off. They are being directed and financed by Iran. Iran wants all to think that they are not involved but the world knows they are. Take out Iran and the terrorist groups are choked off. One could form a coalition to take them out and this would include some ME nations. SA may be in talks to normalize relations with Iran but SA hates Iran as do many Suni Islam led nations. Israel would need to back off for awhile and get more humanitarian aid into Gaza while taking charge of police actions there.

Choke them off from Iranian aid and leave the occupation and discrimination in place, and they'll find other sources.

 

[Bob]

Not sure if you guys have seen the Bassem Youssef vs Piers Morgan interview. Hoping the link works.

Hidden Palestine on Instagram: "FULL INTERVIEW: Bassem Youssef destroys Piers Morgan on Gaza I couldn’t choose a single clip from this interview to post because there are so many moments where Bassem leaves Pierce literally speechless. So here is th

18K likes, 330 comments - hiddenpalestine on October 18, 2023: "FULL INTERVIEW: Bassem Youssef destroys Piers Morgan on Gaza I couldn’t choose a single clip from this interview to post because there are so many moments where Bassem leaves Pierce literally speechless. So here is the full thing...

www.instagram.com

FYI not an account i follow on instragram or anything so ignore anything else from there. Was just hard to find a link for the full interview.

Bassem made a few good points but missed a lot of opportunities to make meaningful arguments.

 

[Bob]

Before British took over, the area belonged to the Ottoman empire. Christians were "dhimmis", officially second class citizens paying a "jizyah", tax for non-Muslims for centuries. Things are also peaceful in North Korea, low crime rate.

Which has nothing to do with the price of tea in China.

 

[Bob]

So the Israelis are really helping Palestinians now? Ah ok.

Once Hamas has gone they will leave and let the Palestinians back onto all that empty fertile land.

How kind.
Or they just gonna doze it all down and make Trump Jerusalem Condo tower and casino resort

It's amazing how many in the US say how benevolent Israel is for 'providing water to their enemy' and giving warning before flattening blocks of apartments. Of course on the other hand there are those who say Hamas is a charitable organization.

 

[fastpitch17]

It's amazing how many in the US say how benevolent Israel is for 'providing water to their enemy' and giving warning before flattening blocks of apartments. Of course on the other hand there are those who say Hamas is a charitable organization.

I think most in the US are well aware that there would have been no aid what so ever without the push from the US and a few other nations.

 

[serious_fun]

So many horrific stories and so much suffering!!

Thousands of children killed in the past few weeks...

I think most in the US are well aware that there would have been no aid what so ever without the push from the US and a few other nations.

Even the most stridently racist zionist/talmudist understands how bad the optics would have been if they hadn't allowed a few truckloads of assistance through one of the tiny openings in the wall which surrounds the Gaza strip.

evil ba$tards on each side while innocents suffer. As it has always been.

 

[harryopal1]

I am reminded of Marlon Brando's soliloquy in Apocalypse Now when he says, "You must make a friend of horror and moral terror..." and goes on to explain how after inoculating children for polio Vietnamese cadre had come in and hacked off all the inoculated arms of the children. After recovering from the shock he concludes that he is struck by the "genius, will power and the strength to do that" and realizes they are stronger than the Americans.

At first thought it seemed sheer madness for Hamas to attack Jews in Israel as they did to precipitate such a monstrous reprisal from Israel. On reflection I suspect Hamas knew what would happen and were prepared to sacrifice so many Palestinians to Israeli revenge in order to achieve a longer term goal with such a reaction against Israel that eventually Palestine would be freed.

Not a path that I could step into but that it seems is the fanatical purpose of Hamas.

 

[Bob]

I think most in the US are well aware that there would have been no aid what so ever without the push from the US and a few other nations.

I don't know. The public's been pounded with propaganda for so many years that there's an unrealistically positive view of Israel's actions toward the Palestinians.

 

[fastpitch17]

I don't know. The public's been pounded with propaganda for so many years that there's an unrealistically positive view of Israel's actions toward the Palestinians.

Let's face it. The New World Order is always in flux and is currently in the New World Chaos stage.