Vaccine effectiveness and Herd Immunity

dafluff

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Well, that was fun while it lasted...

User @Mangotree has been banned. This thread will be cleaned up momentarily.
 

Balifrog

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Ok, as mods went through the pain of creating a new thread for this, I can maybe post this link here


Long subject, but there is proof that yes, the US "sponsored" some research in Wuhan.
Mind you, France helped (finance and technology) to build it at the origin ....
 

atlantis

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There really should be a facepalm emoji on this site

Indeed. @dafluff and @El_Goretto, any way to find a solution for that?

I just don't get why something as simple as the fact that vaccin doesn't fully protect against getting the COVID-19 but protects you effectively from getting SERIOUSLY ILL AND DYING from COVID-19 is still not understood.

If it helps saving life, and it does, then it works for fuck sake. It buys time to scientists and virologists to better understand the virus and having ultimately a chance to defeat it. It is not gonna be done overnight but it is a first step and an effective one.

For the first fourteen days after getting a vaccination, and for most vaccins, you DO NOT HAVE significant levels of protection, then it increases gradually.

It has been said ad nauseum, in every language, on every reliable media. It is also repeated at EACH vaccination here in Indonesia. It has been repeated to my wife when she got her first and second jab, to me when I got my first and second jab , to my elder when he got his first and second jab, two my two other kids (still at level 1 of the vaccination) and all my staff to their first and second jab.

Before having the pretention to debate it is wise to start by understanding what has to be debated.
 

fastpitch17

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Ok, as mods went through the pain of creating a new thread for this, I can maybe post this link here


Long subject, but there is proof that yes, the US "sponsored" some research in Wuhan.
Mind you, France helped (finance and technology) to build it at the origin ....
For christ sake. Everyone knows and have known fir a ling time that the US sponsored some research in the Wuhan lab. You forgot to mention that the reasearch sponsored was also being worked on as a US China team of scientist. You are trying to make it sound that since the US did work with the Chinese that this lab must be the reason for covid and that the US had some hand in it. Totally unrelated events and I believe people here would appreciate you stopping the missinformation campaign you elected to put in this forum.

Hey, we get it. You are scared of needles and don't give a damn about anyone else including your family. Such a great guy you are. A true humanitarian. Keep ignoring science and stick with your guns. Hell ain't half full yet but seems to be filling with all the antivaxers now.
 

Balifrog

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For christ sake. Everyone knows and have known fir a ling time that the US sponsored some research in the Wuhan lab. You forgot to mention that the reasearch sponsored was also being worked on as a US China team of scientist. You are trying to make it sound that since the US did work with the Chinese that this lab must be the reason for covid and that the US had some hand in it. Totally unrelated events and I believe people here would appreciate you stopping the missinformation campaign you elected to put in this forum.

Hey, we get it. You are scared of needles and don't give a damn about anyone else including your family. Such a great guy you are. A true humanitarian. Keep ignoring science and stick with your guns. Hell ain't half full yet but seems to be filling with all the antivaxers now.
Wrong on both paragraphs !
I love it when some internet idiot thinks he knows me.....

So, what about you try to answer (in a well constructed way) the subject of the press article instead of shouting on the messenger ?
 
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HappyMan

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Wrong on both paragraphs !
I love it when some internet idiot thinks he knows me.....

So, what about you try to answer (in a well constructed way) the subject of the press article instead of shouting on the messenger ?
You don't toss rubbish on someone's lawn and then demand they explain why they think it is rubbish.
 

Balifrog

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You don't toss rubbish on someone's lawn and then demand they explain why they think it is rubbish.
Another idiotic reply....
Ok, I guess you'll like this article MUCH more...... ? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


Alabama, Republicans, Fox News... all the ingredients of wisdom are in it !
 

ChrisTex

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e31.jpg
 

Balifrog

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A last a decent and objective article....
With several points spot on !


"SINGAPORE - Fully vaccinated people currently make up 44 per cent of Covid-19 cases in Singapore, leading to questions over whether vaccinations are an effective safeguard against the virus.

Experts say, however, that as Singapore continues on its upward trajectory to vaccinate more people, seeing more vaccinated individuals among infected cases is a mathematical certainty, and not a reflection of the performance of the vaccines."
........

"While studies have shown that vaccinated individuals are less likely to get infected than those who have not had their shots, it is difficult to put a number on this, experts say."
.......
"Prof Fisher noted that of the 415 Covid-19 cases in hospital, only eight Covid-19 cases required oxygen support or were in critical condition in the ICU. None of them was fully vaccinated."

And the best one, at last somebody says it !
"He added: "We know it still doesn't eradicate the disease, it just makes it milder."

But of course Brit and Aussie tabloid are probably more objective ? Not to speak about FOX and CNN ! 😂😂😂😂🙄🙄🙄

Ok, sitting back with some popcorn and a whisky, waiting for the avalanche now !
 
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Hawk256

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A last a decent and objective article....
With several points spot on !


"SINGAPORE - Fully vaccinated people currently make up 44 per cent of Covid-19 cases in Singapore, leading to questions over whether vaccinations are an effective safeguard against the virus.
This article says 75% of new cases in Singapore are vaccinated. https://finance.yahoo.com/news/1-vaccinated-people-75-recent-104756916.html
 

Balifrog

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Reas
This article says 75% of new cases in Singapore are vaccinated. https://finance.yahoo.com/news/1-vaccinated-people-75-recent-104756916.html
Read again plse..
Straits Times article speaks about 44% fully vaccinated , with additional cases having only 1 vaccine.

"the Ministry of Health (MOH) revealed that 484 out of the total 1,096 locally transmitted infections over the last 28 days were fully vaccinated - making up 44 per cent of total infections.
Meanwhile, 333 cases were partially vaccinated and 279 were unvaccinated."

The Yahoo / Reuters article adds up the fully and partially vaccinated... :

" Singapore's 1,096 locally transmitted infections in the last 28 days, 484, or about 44%, were in fully vaccinated people, while 30% were partially vaccinated and just over 25% were unvaccinated,"
44% + 30% = 74% , rounded at 75 or because of the decimals.

Claro ?
 

Balifrog

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Balifrog I really don't think I understand your view. Are you pro vaccine? Seems you post articles with contradicting points. Anyway the key takeaway is this bit
Compairing / discussing various and diverse views on any subject is the base of democracy.
I have my personal views on many things ranging from politics to religion, passing through car brands... But I accept that others can have different views
I am not pro nor anti vax, but I accept that both exist.
Same as I accept that different religion exists, and should peacefully co-exist (in a dream world), together with atheists.
What I don't like (to put it softly) are untolerant zealots / extremists in ANY domain, people who don't accept other views and consider anybody with a different opinion as an idiot.

I dont contest what you call "the key take away".
I always mentionned the vaccine is a tool amongst others, but not the miracle solution which will make Covid disapear, as some tend to believe.

LIBERTY / EGALITY / FRATERNITY
The 3 pilars of "La République"
 

HappyMan

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I dont contest what you call "the key take away".
I always mentionned the vaccine is a tool amongst others, but not the miracle solution which will make Covid disapear, as some tend to believe.

LIBERTY / EGALITY / FRATERNITY
The 3 pilars of "La République"
There's not a lot of fraternity to be found in refusing a vaccine because you believe it goes against your own, personal, best interest. There is not much to be had in opposing the "good" lockdowns and vaccines in favor of the (impossible)"perfect" magical vaccine when it means more people will die, either.

Explaining to people why their opinions are baseless and ignorant is at least as much a service to democracy as is going about shouting baseless and ignorant opinions. Though, admittedly, neither is pleasant. It would be much preferred that people examine and clarify their opinions before shopping them about in public, but c'est la vie.
 
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Balifrog

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Explaining to people why their opinions are baseless and ignorant is at least as much a service to democracy a
Hahahahaha.....Are you a teacher or professor ? I say that with regard to the word "explaining" which is extremely arrogant.
Anyway, next time, try to answer the topic (the Straits Times article) and not the poster !

But anyway, thanks for the valuable council. I'll file it. Vertically.
 

HappyMan

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Hahahahaha.....Are you a teacher or professor ? I say that with regard to the word "explaining" which is extremely arrogant.
Anyway, next time, try to answer the topic (the Straits Times article) and not the poster !

But anyway, thanks for the valuable council. I'll file it. Vertically.
Lol. I'm not that clever, Bali, but even I can understand that the vaccines are saving lives. Even I can understand that they are the best solution that we currently have. Even I can understand that you don't need to pointlessly muddy the waters during an international health crisis.
Some knuckle heads don't get this. They treat the internet like their local pub, posting any random crap they find personally amusing, pretending that just being an ass provides some sort of democratic virtue to society. 🤔🤔🤔.

At this point, it is clear that the vaccines are the best way we have to overcome the pandemic. The actual professionals agree on this. It's a proven fact. So, anyone who doesn't agree that vaccines are the solution either: 1, actually does need it explained to them, since they don't seem to be able to reach the correct conclusion by themselves or with the help of readily available information resources or 2, understands that vaccines are the solution, but has some personal (selfish) reason for pretending to disagree. I prefer to think that most anti-vaxers are in group 1, since group 2 is populated almost entirely by assholes.
 
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Hawk256

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So, anyone who doesn't agree that vaccines are the solution either: 1, actually does need it explained to them, since they don't seem to be able to reach the correct conclusion by themselves or with the help of readily available information resources or 2, understands that vaccines are the solution, but has some personal (selfish) reason for pretending to disagree. I prefer to think that most anti-vaxers are in group 1, since group 2 is populated almost entirely by assholes.
Let me guess, the correct conclusion is only what you want it be based on your opinion. If someone doesn't want the vaccine, what skin is off your back? Vaccinated people are still getting COVID which means it will still mutate. Possibly even more so to evade the vaccine. If you are so confident that the vaccine will save your life, why worry about the "idiots" that don't want it. The are only hurting themselves. What happened to my body, my choice? Who knows about the swine vaccine debacle in 1976? Do you know how many people have died in the US after taking the COVID vaccine in 2021? According to the VAERS it is approximately 5,000. The swine flu vaccine was pulled after 53 deaths.
 

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