The drab hand of religions.

[Pak Tani]

There are certainly some who do it out of religious reasons (maybe simply because it has been endoctrinated in them since very young...), but there are also a lot who do it because of environment and family pressure.

It is interesting to explore how many and for whatever reasons women wear a jilbab, burka or some other type of veil. But to leave out the possibility that some/many women wear it because they see it as a (obligatory) part of their religion is just ridiculous.
I think for some women there are several reasons why they wear a jilbab. They may believe that their religion tells them to do so, but it is the combination of this and other reasons that ultimately makes them decide to wear one. They may be opting for something more fashionable in stead of a 'drab long robe'.
Weighing the weight of each of these reasons is what makes this a difficult topic to discuss when there isn't any research available.

 

[harryopal1]

At the heart of many religious institutions is a process to control and keep adherents. Fear with the threat of hellfire and eternal damnation is a powerful tool to that end. Anything that distracts people from the sole purpose of life to ensure salvation is sinful. Anything that provides enjoyment is fraught with sin. Colour, music, dance and of course lust are all elements that threaten to distract us from the "purity" that must be sought to save our souls.

Of course for many people caught up in the psychology of their religion will happily take on the habits deemed necessary to reach heaven and eternal life. The need for patriarchal societies to oppress women is common also to many religions.

 

[Balifrog]

https://www.quora.com/My-parents-are-forcing-their-religion-on-me-I-don-t-want-to-be-a-Muslim-anymore-but-they-are-too-strict-about-it-Is-it-best-to-avoid-telling-them

Just a few examples.....

 

[harryopal1]

Wearing a hijab now in western countries increasingly carries with it hostile responses. It is so easy in life to develop hatred for those who are different and now with extremist Islamists determined to kill infidels, every time there is a violent incident life for Muslims in western countries becomes more difficult. An unfortunate response to the Bondi massacre by a father and son pair of extremists is having a serious impact on the lives of ordinary Muslims in Australia as reported in today's news.

Women wearing hijabs targeted in anti-Muslim abuse since Bondi attack

There are concerns women wearing hijabs are bearing the brunt of a "horrifying" wave of Islamophobia in the wake of the Bondi Beach terrorist attack, with the Australian National Imams Council reporting a rise of hate incidents.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Balifrog]

Wearing a hijab now in western countries increasingly carries with it hostile responses. It is so easy in life to develop hatred for those who are different and now with extremist Islamists determined to kill infidels, every time there is a violent incident life for Muslims in western countries becomes more difficult. An unfortunate response to the Bondi massacre by a father and son pair of extremists is having a serious impact on the lives of ordinary Muslims in Australia as reported in today's news.

Women wearing hijabs targeted in anti-Muslim abuse since Bondi attack

There are concerns women wearing hijabs are bearing the brunt of a "horrifying" wave of Islamophobia in the wake of the Bondi Beach terrorist attack, with the Australian National Imams Council reporting a rise of hate incidents.

www.abc.net.au

Same happened in the US after 9/11...

IMO, anybody who wants to stand out and claim publicly their faith in a foreign country with a different religion (whereas it should be a private matter only) and knowing that it may displease certain people, can reasonably expect to be targeted for it in certain circumstances.
Same happens to Jews in Paris since the Gaza genocide, Jews are being targeted by muslims...Many of them choose to leave, going back to "the promised land"
Good ridance...

 

[Hawk256]

Maybe they are telling you what they think you want to hear?

Whey they say the do if for Allah, I believe them. When they say they don't feel mistreated by their religion, I belive them. What makes you so sure that they are lying? How many muslim people have hung around for 8 or so hours a day and actually talked to each other. You are getting like others on this forum and just can't fathom the fact that you might be wrong about something, at least in some cases. Welcome to that club. Not sure how if feels to be a member off that club though.

 

[Balifrog]

You are getting like others on this forum and just can't fathom the fact that you might be wrong about something, at least in some cases.

And you seem very sure you are right ....?

No idea of your age and since how long you are living here, but at least accept others can have different views on certain subjects !

 

[Hawk256]

And you seem very sure you are right ....?

No idea of your age and since how long you are living here, but at least accept others can have different views on certain subjects !

55 been here 8 years. I can speak about what I know and I know what I have heard and what I have expereiced, It's the others using terms like "all don't want to" or " if they they say they do it for god they are liars" that rubs me the wrong way. And I was one of the firsts one to say not to use absolutes but some people still do. I am also not the one calling other peoples wives liars.

 

[Bob]

At the heart of many religious institutions is a process to control and keep adherents. Fear with the threat of hellfire and eternal damnation is a powerful tool to that end. Anything that distracts people from the sole purpose of life to ensure salvation is sinful. Anything that provides enjoyment is fraught with sin. Colour, music, dance and of course lust are all elements that threaten to distract us from the "purity" that must be sought to save our souls.

Of course for many people caught up in the psychology of their religion will happily take on the habits deemed necessary to reach heaven and eternal life. The need for patriarchal societies to oppress women is common also to many religions.

It sounds like the Cathars are making a comeback.

 

[harryopal1]

It sounds like the Cathars are making a comeback.

Thanks. I've long had an interest in comparative religion but don't recall coming across a reference to Cathars. I had to look that up. The Inquisition decided burning them at the stake was sure way of teaching them a lesson. That you know of Cathars might suggest a Catholic upbringing.

The Cathars were a medieval dualist religious movement, prominent in Southern France (Occitania) during the 12th-13th centuries, who believed the material world was evil, created by a lesser god, contrasting sharply with the Catholic Church's view. Known as Albigensians and "pure ones" (Katharoi), they emphasized asceticism, equality, and lived simply, challenging Church authority. Their beliefs led to persecution by the Catholic Church, culminating in the Albigensian Crusade and the Inquisition, ultimately leading to their destruction by the 14th century. "

 

[Bob]

Same happened in the US after 9/11...

IMO, anybody who wants to stand out and claim publicly their faith in a foreign country with a different religion (whereas it should be a private matter only) and knowing that it may displease certain people, can reasonably expect to be targeted for it in certain circumstances.
Same happens to Jews in Paris since the Gaza genocide, Jews are being targeted by muslims...Many of them choose to leave, going back to "the promised land"
Good ridance...

I suppose there's what should be a reasonable expectation that wearing a benign religious symbol won't elicit a violent or even negative response. Too many let their tribalism overrule their good sense.

 

[Bob]

Thanks. I've long had an interest in comparative religion but don't recall coming across a reference to Cathars. I had to look that up. The Inquisition decided burning them at the stake was sure way of teaching them a lesson. That you know of Cathars might suggest a Catholic upbringing.

View attachment 5371
The Cathars were a medieval dualist religious movement, prominent in Southern France (Occitania) during the 12th-13th centuries, who believed the material world was evil, created by a lesser god, contrasting sharply with the Catholic Church's view. Known as Albigensians and "pure ones" (Katharoi), they emphasized asceticism, equality, and lived simply, challenging Church authority. Their beliefs led to persecution by the Catholic Church, culminating in the Albigensian Crusade and the Inquisition, ultimately leading to their destruction by the 14th century. "

It was an interesting movement for sure, as was Rome's response. I had no Catholic upbringing but I've been fortunate to spend a lot of time in that part of France.

 

[harryopal1]

It illustrates how readily those of a seriously religious bent can be moved to impose severe punishment of those who deviate from the correct path. For Muslims fines, imprisonment, flogging, loss of employment and education opportunities, and in extreme cases, the death penalty has been imposed on women not wearing a burka or hijab..

 

[Bob]

It illustrates how readily those of a seriously religious bent can be moved to impose severe punishment of those who deviate from the correct path. For Muslims fines, imprisonment, flogging, loss of employment and education opportunities, and in extreme cases, the death penalty has been imposed on women not wearing a burka or hijab..

And of course the basis for those punishments is bogus. Those who crave power and its perks do what they can to sell and maintain their authority. Some use appeals to religion, some to patriotism, some brute force, etc.
.

 

[pantaiema]

At the heart of many religious institutions is a process to control and keep adherents. Fear with the threat of hellfire and eternal damnation is a powerful tool to that end. Anything that distracts people from the sole purpose of life to ensure salvation is sinful. Anything that provides enjoyment is fraught with sin. Colour, music, dance and of course lust are all elements that threaten to distract us from the "purity" that must be sought to save our souls.

Of course for many people caught up in the psychology of their religion will happily take on the habits deemed necessary to reach heaven and eternal life. The need for patriarchal societies to oppress women is common also to many religions.

It should not be a problem if someone practices their beliefs privately without affecting or harming others. It becomes a serious problem when they try to impose their beliefs on other people or force others to follow them even take people down together to the graveyard.

Some of the most extreme cases have occurred in Indonesia:

• Suicide bombings have happened many times. It is important to note that police investigations have confirmed that many of the perpetrators were linked to specific religious boarding schools.
• The province of Aceh in Indonesia has implemented Sharia law.
• Recently, they have succeeded in passing the “bonking (boom-boom)” law. Despite this, some individuals in here continue to insist misleadingly that the law has no effect whatsoever on people life.

Historically, there have been systematic efforts to amend Indonesia’s constitution (UUD 1945) and to alter the nation’s foundational ideological symbols, including Garuda Pancasila. Some of these movements have gone so far as to attempt acts that threaten the state itself, including coup-like actions. These are facts (not opinions):

• Hizb ut-Tahrir Indonesia (HTI) and factions linked to Jemaah Islamiyah have openly advocated for the re-establishment of a caliphate.
• Majelis Mujahidin Indonesia (MMI) and Jamaah Ansharut Daulah (JAD) are also proponents of the khilafah system.
• Other movements such as the Ex-Islamic Defenders Front (FPI),
• Darul Islam/Indonesian Islamic Army (DI/TII), and related rebellions have similarly challenged the constitutional order.
• The Jakarta Charter (Piagam Jakarta) is another historical example often cited in discussions about attempts to reshape Indonesia’s constitutional framework and ideological foundations.

Partai Ummat (Ummah Party), PPP (United Development Party), PKS, and PBB (Crescent Star Party) have all supported incorporating Islamic values through sharia or limited sharia-inspired regulations within Indonesia. When counted together, the number are not small.

As long as major political parties continue to exploit these groups to secure votes, religious boarding schools that keep indoctrinating children still exist, particularly those from disadvantaged backgrounds, hate preachers are allowed to influence adults, the movement can be expected to persist. If it continues unchecked, it will inevitably progress toward its final end. It may not occur in our lifetime, but think about people grandchildren and great grandchildren, etc.