The "Bule" Discussion

[Puspawarna]

Wow, this thread is an awesome, living illustration of the collision between language descriptivism and prescriptivism, with MissN championing the latter.

Alas, history shows that descriptivism ALWAYS wins.

 

[centurion]

As much as I wouldn't blame you to point at the fact that some "bule" (all shade and colours) may be arrogant and condescending, I kindly advise you to be careful not to generalize and single out a whole group of people. That is unless if you want to post somewhere else of course.

The discussion goes in direction of Westerners lecturing in a patronizing way an Indonesian to his/her language.
I was inclined to accept the idea of a "more inclusive" bule, but I think @Missnaughty arguments are
prevailing. If Wikipedia, Indonesian vocabulary, Indonesians themselves, say that the meaning of bule is white foreigner, caucasian, then it means that(at least in Java and Sumatra, which is 80% of the population. As the discussion developed, I asked Indonesians that I know and they confirmed the above.

So, If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.

 

[Missnaughty]

I just scrolled up and found another Indonesian that was upset because of your arrogancy.

What you do here is similar like me (an Indonesian) insisting that “it has grew” is the correct grammar because most redneck use the phrase instead of “it has grown” to a bunch of americans.

I did write to google.

Please do so. Anything which can keep you busy is a blessing for this forum @Missnaughty.

Addit: Oh and please, write to Detik, Tribun, Kompas, Merdeka, Facebook...etc. it is time that someone take this matter in hand and act so that this trend ceases immediately.

 

[Marcel123]

Mic dropped
Case closed
Maybe thread also closed?

hmmm why ?
I think this is a important topic frankly .Calling non indonesians Bule is not a problem as long they don't call you Londoh. Even indonesian people agree that this can be a bad word ,Depending on situation and context.

 

[atlantis]

The discussion goes in direction of Westerners lecturing in a patronizing way an Indonesian to his/her language.
I was inclined to accept the idea of a "more inclusive" bule, but I think @Missnaughty arguments are
prevailing. If Wikipedia, Indonesian vocabulary, Indonesians themselves, say that the meaning of bule is white foreigner, caucasian, then it means that(at least in Java and Sumatra, which is 80% of the population. As the discussion developed, I asked Indonesians that I know and they confirmed the above.

So, If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.

It doesn't answer the issue of you generalizing and singling out a whole group of people which is something I kindly warn you not to do again, particularly since it is not the first time you do it. We hope it is the last one and I will make sure to keep an eye on your postings. Thank you.

It also doesn't answer the why, as seen in a lot of online content pasted in this thread, all Indonesian doesn't seem to agree with you. If a growing number of Indonesian use the term "bule" in a different way of your friend(s), perhaps it means that the meaning of the term is changing. It is. Feel free to deny it, or to jump at the throat of any Indonesian using it not in the way you/your friend(s) believe it should be used, but everyday contents in the internet shows it is not anymore used for white Caucasian only. Now is that good or bad? I don't even waste time to discuss it and leave to @Missnaughty who has a lot of time in her hands to Crusade for the cleansing of the Indonesian language so that it remains as it was in tempo doeloe.
Last time I checked on a map both Medan and Jakarta were respectively in Sumatra and Jawa. 3 of the links pasted are from the regional edition of Sumatra and Jawa. @fastpitch17 's wife who is of mixed Indonesia/Indian descent and therefore "brown skin", is commonly referred as being a "bule", apparently by most Indonesian she meet with. Probably a case of acute myopia from the Indonesian calling her "bule", but it's perhaps worth mentioning it too. @fastpitch17 and his wife live in Sumatra and this for the past 6 or 7 years at least (apologize to @fastpitch17 if the count is not right, memory fades with age), and prior to that in Jakarta.

I don't give a toss if you or anyone wants to believe or maintain that "bule" has a white only connotation in today's Indonesia. I encourage you (or anyone else) to chime in in all those internet content I pasted to explain to those Indonesian who use the term bule "wrongly" why they shouldn't do it.

The only reason I chimed in in this thread was to moderate a user who felt offended being called a bule and pretending that bule ONLY means white caucasian, which, as seen in numerous links pasted, is not true anymore.

 

[atlantis]

I just scrolled up and found another Indonesian that was upset because of your arrogancy.

Please send him/her my kindest regards and assure him/her that s/he will have to live with that.

We (The Moderation Team), nor I as a single individual, have any intention to modify our stance on the "bule" issue. We will let any user using the term "bule" to qualify any foreigner, be they black, white or any shade in between and we will moderate any user flaming him/her for doing so.

The issue having been discussed, with all parties defending their point, with all users being able to make up their mind, this thread is now closed.