Tax planning for US Expat

[Jaime C]

@Jaime C , The $25k x 2 discussion was for meeting the E32A visa requirement in which we need to invest those amounts in Indonesia. Otherwise, I would not have investing our money in Indonesia bank, .

I have heard good things about Fidelity. I am with Charles Schwab and they have checking account and nice credit card, no foreign transaction fees for expat as well.

Sounds like you are a US citizen as well since you are familiar with US assets.

Do you mind if I reach out to you over DM to follow up?

I generally prefer to keep topic discussions in the forum, so others can benefit from the information.

 

[marcus]

... Good to hear that BCA allows it as it has the best atm network in Indo.

The size of the BCA ATM network is irrelevant to many of us because most (if not all) Indonesian banks use/share each other's ATM networks . All ATM & ATM cards show flags like : 'ATM Bersama' , 'Prima' , 'Alto' and/or 'Link' , so we know which ATM a specific ATM card will be accepted .

I presume you do not have the NPWP and BCA never reported you to DGJ?

I think that to comply with rules about money laundering & tax , the bank may ask for the NPWP .
I always had low amount of money in Indonesia , so I was asked for it only once in around 10 banks .

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... Through Minister of Finance Regulation No. 19 of 2018, banking institutions are required to report customers with a balance of at least Rp1 billion (was Rp200 million)...

This regulation allows the Directorate General of Taxes/Pajak (DGP) to evaluate any agreements and/or practices aimed at avoiding tax information obligations ... (from https://klikpajak.id/blog/saldo-rekening-diatas-1-miliar/)

 

[jstar]

The size of the BCA ATM network is irrelevant to us because most (if not all) Indonesian banks use/share each other's ATM networks . All ATM & ATM cards show flags like : 'ATM Bersama' , 'Prima' , 'Alto' and/or 'Link' , so we know which ATM a specific ATM card will be accepted .

Eh, who is ‘us’ ?

You do realize you have to pay when using your card on one of those machines right? Unlike in the EU or so, transactions with machines from other banks and on other networks are NOT always free. Also if you transfer to a merchant in a shop -what we do quite a lot- it also could cost additional money if they are customer of a different bank.

So yes, banking with BCA or so offers advantages and is relevant.

Perbandingan Biaya di Atm Link, Bersama, Prima dan Alto

Oleh Berita Bisnis

kumparan.com

 

[jstar]

To the OP; I do agree with SNPark’s assessment the ‘doing nothing’ might be best in your case and not that risky. If you’re going the ex-WNI path it might work out a bit different in the end. Someone like @Banana72 would know.

 

[marcus]

Or just get evisa voa ... Or multi entry 1 and 2 year business visa. So technically you never living here ... Once you get a resident visa then you are officially "living" here and resident tax liable ...

Wrong .

In this subject , staying more than 183 days in any 12 months period with VoA or any other Visit Visa = staying here with a Residence Visa (KITAS or KITAP) .

-------------------------------------

UU no.6 Year 2023
Article 111 (page 633) - free translation
(3) Domestic/Resident tax subjects are:
a. individuals (Indonesians or foreigners) who:
1. reside in Indonesia;
2. are in Indonesia for more than 183 days in a period of 12 months; or ...

 

[Banana72]

Thanks for the vote of confidence jstar!

So I'd agree with snpark about your visa....rather than jumping head first, really take a deep breath and try out the VOA first, if 30 days is not enough try the extendable up to 60 days total (and watch the need-to-leave the country deadline very closely ). Again--my knowledge of the visas and its development is limited and can be outdated.

Once you're here, I assume you have friends/family? Don't make big announcement yet to everybody you're a US citizen, coming 'home' etc etc just pick a few trusted ones to share what you need. Many Indonesians fall into more of the 'kepo' category and you'd spend lots of time answering questions than getting answers!

Second choice of visa...not sure if the sosbud visa (the 'family visit') is still available? if it is, you'll get more than 30-60 days in the country (like up to 180 days/6 months), but I used to know one or two expats who just did what snpark mentioned...voa...then every 60 days a quick 2 days visit/short vaca outside Indonesia, then fly back in apply another VOA. I hear the airport immigration (depending on your luck) kinda frown a bit at same day in-and-out of indonesia just to apply for another VOA. I would think after hanging out within Indonesia with 2-3 VOAs you'll get the idea what to do a bit better.. and I understand this from living in the US for half of my life (at that time) and being here for quite a few years, it is important for you to keep balance between our American mindset and how people do things here in Indonesia..

Banks: Not sure about now, but I think while they might let you you open a bank without NPWP (again- maybe not recently), they will require at least KITAS to open one...so if you're on voa, i don't think you can open a local bank account...(like BCA), but a few of my expat friends have been living here for years (english teacher, engineer, etc) and they always use non-Indonesian cards, some even until they finish their job and left Indonesia. If you MUST have a BCA- maybe have a really trusted family member open a BCA account, you hold the debit/atm card and the token...and you can use it to transfer, withdraw money...not sure about QRIS set up btw (good to have if you really want convenience). Again- no judgement here, just saying this is what some people have done.

 

[snpark]

Ok 1 BCA. The best bank. Not sure about ATM etc as an ATM is an ATM but their mobile app and internet banking is excellent. Can pay and do and transfer numerous things and fast easy to use even international transfers and daily limits high and can control and turn on and off different facilities on cards etc.

So I'd absolutely recommend BCA


2 NPWP tax thingy

This is a 16 (14?) digit number used to come on a physical card in a folder with a cd unbelievably but no expiry date on the card but only on the "certificate" it came with.

Now AFAIK on bank forms etc they ask and request it BUT I truly feel this is a box ticking request and not something they really need and use and follow up about.

Let's just say a couple of times I've accidentally given them the wrong number and not once ever have they questioned it and called me back to correct it. Even just one digit higher or lower you could say you forgot the last number or reversed the last two accidentally.

I'm just saying that for some things with banks they really don't care in the branch and just filling in the blanks. No one is going to check you out. And if they do? Ooops oh yeh sorry it ends 4321 not 4312

Like the COVID tests to enter the mall or the hotel security at 5pm in the rain when you drive in in a silver bird. The security couldn't care less about the hotel safely on 3jt a month. They have to walk around with a dirty mirror and open the barrier for the bule.

You get my drift
I still fight with the bank annually when they ask for my UK tax number and I tell them I left in 1992 and give them my driving licence number instead just so they can write something in the box. Lol


Anyway point is while we all understand your eagerness to comply most of it is irrelevant and unnecessary

Just be a tourist for a while and if and when they catch up with you in a year it 2 time tax years etc you won't be here anyway

Obviously you are asking because of the US perspective and for that I don't really know.

 

[snpark]

ATM fees for using BCA card in mandiri ATM example. Well withdrawing the max say 4jt you talking about not even a whole $ so thats the price of convenience these days. If they even charge

My grab car to my local 5* hotel on Friday night costs me less than 20,000 rp. So it's all in consideration really I guess

Get a taxi from LHR London airport car park into west end and it's pushing well over 1jt min.
Still laugh at myself for being so pelit in the old days waiting for blue bird 20mins from airport here to home is 120 and silver bird 240. Like $10 extra for a nice Merc for 45 mins drive lol

In Dubai cost me 500dhs to do valet for my Aston Martin that's about $150 2jt


We are lucky here for many things. Thankyou Om Prab for nice exchange rate

 

[marcus]

So I'd agree with snpark about your visa .... my knowledge of the visas ... is limited ...
Second choice of visa...not sure if the sosbud visa (the 'family visit') is still available? ...

Can't you tell why you don't recommend a Diaspora/ex-Indonesian Visa ?

You told before that you had one , so what is/are the problem(s) that you had with it ?

Note : That old Sosbud Visa does not exist anymore , but we can use a similar & easier Tourist Visa instead (60d + 60d + 60d , total 180 days) .

 

[marcus]

Ok 1 BCA. The best bank.

How many other Indonesian based banks you already used ?

 

[marcus]

Eh, who is ‘us’ ?

Sorry , then 'many of us' .

You do realize you have to pay when using your card on one of those machines right? ...

I never paid because one of my wife's banks give us 30 times free withdrawals per month at other banks' ATM , and this limit is enough for me because most of my payments , all of : transferring , checking balance and investing are done online using computer & phones at home (we have also 30 times free transfers in other bank's ATM per month , which I don't use) .

In the past I also never paid other banks' ATM fee because I always opened accounts in banks near my home or near the preferred supermarket , so I always used my bank's ATM . My wife's bank is near the supermarket but I don't buy there anymore (buy online now) , so due to the laziness , we started using other banks ATM .

According to Google AI : Interbank cash withdrawal fees at ATMs through networks such as ATM Bersama or Prima are generally charged Rp7.5k per withdrawal (balance check: Rp4k , interbank transfer: Rp6.5k) .
For customers of state-owned banks (BRI, BNI, Mandiri, BTN) using Himbara ATMs with Link logo, cash withdrawals and balance inquiries are usually free .
Some digital banks or certain bank account types offer free interbank cash withdrawals per month if the minimum balance requirement is met.

Also if you transfer to a merchant in a shop -what we do quite a lot- it also could cost additional money if they are customer of a different bank ...

I don't pay that too , as I usually pay/transfer with Seabank app and never paid any fee (it gives us 100 free interbank transfers/payments per month , and fees to transfer to digital wallets are : Dana (Rp400) , GoPay or Ovo (Rp1k) only (to ShopeePay is free) .

So yes, banking with BCA or so offers advantages and is relevant.

I think each bank has its own characteristics which made it attracts its clients . I myself already had BCA account (near my former home) but probably will never return to be its client again .

Of course BCA is relevant to many people (as it is the biggest private bank in Indonesia) , but I don't see now any relevant advantage for me (but some 20 years ago I had an advantage of getting its credit card , which doesn't mean I would not get in other banks as I didn't try) .

 

[snpark]

How many other Indonesian based banks you already used ?

7 in 18 years

 

[snpark]

The only time I use ATM is literally to withdraw cash like once a month which is what I use for the tips for manicure girl and shaving man. Everything else is through apps like grab happy fresh etc even the tips all goes through that and onto my card which gets me all my lovely SG Kris miles. If I have a fancy meal I tip cash. Usually keep 1-2jt in 100s and 1 in 50s. I try and keep the new notes if I get them
For me I say BCA is best because the app is good. Maybe others prefer Mandiri CIMB Permata Mega HSBC etc. I guess personal preference we all have our finances set up our own particular way