Stay Permit Expiry date

[ChrisOnBali]

Hi all, a friend asked me and I don't know the answer, she has an extension to a VOA that says 'STAY PERMIT EXPIRY 08/05/2026'.

The question is, does that mean leave by the end of the 8th of May (which I guess is the case), or by the end of 7th May (which I guess could be argued too) ?

There's nothing else on the permit to say what exactly the date means, if the expiry happens the moment it becomes the 8th, or at the end of that day.

Safer to leave on the 7th but it seems the flights on the 8th are generally cheaper, so it makes more of a difference than just losing a day here.

[Edit] She did the extension the hardcore non-agent way so can't ask them, and can't find anything online one way or the other. I guess I could ask the one I used to use but it's been a while, so I hoped somebody here had come across the question before.

 

[Balifrog]

 

[gemima]

Hi all, a friend asked me and I don't know the answer, she has an extension to a VOA that says 'STAY PERMIT EXPIRY 08/05/2026'.

The question is, does that mean leave by the end of the 8th of May (which I guess is the case), or by the end of 7th May (which I guess could be argued too) ?

There's nothing else on the permit to say what exactly the date means, if the expiry happens the moment it becomes the 8th, or at the end of that day.

Safer to leave on the 7th but it seems the flights on the 8th are generally cheaper, so it makes more of a difference than just losing a day here.

[Edit] She did the extension the hardcore non-agent way so can't ask them, and can't find anything online one way or the other. I guess I could ask the one I used to use but it's been a while, so I hoped somebody here had come across the question before.

She can leave on the 8th. The permits start the day you arrive in and finish on the date they expire (in this case the 8th). You guys are overthinking this.
Even if she overstays 1 day she just needs to pay 1 juta at the airport and they don't make a huge drama out of it.

 

[jstar]

Obviously Gemima is right. Having said that, leaving from Denpasar or Jakarta would not be any problem, but in ‘the provinces’ the local interpretation could be different.

 

[snpark]

I guess the clue is in the wording. Expiry. Leave on or before 8th May
Before they didn't bother putting a date but too many people can't count to 10 3 times or think it starts the day after
The day you enter, even 23.59 as per the egate or your passport, included, so that is day 1, the first day, the next day is 2, etc up to 30, then leave on that day or before.
For extension can be done on the 15th day i.e 14 days after you landed, do it online, instant takes 30 seconds, pay, then you have 48 hours to go to the Immig THEY tell you and do photo, fingerprint, sign and an interview if you look suspect, they will ask you to reconfirm where you stay and what you doing, then by the time you back down in the lobby they already emailed you a PDF of your new extended visa, it very nicely tells you top right when it expires so that is the LATEST day you have to leave or its 1jt a day fine.

To extend you have to show a ticket, as before if you don't have a real one yet just book with Lionair to SG for 3 weeks ahead, paying by ATM, it sends you the ref PRN etc or take a screen shot, you send this as PDF when you do the extension, they accept it, anyway why would you pay for a ticket if you don't have extension confirmed yet so they don't usually ask much on that

Good luck, well anyway you got the extension so yes latest on 8th you have to have passed through immigration as thats where it shows you left, example flight at 5a.m if you go through Immi at 23.59 you have "left"

 

[jstar]

I remember many years ago a forum member got into trouble since the Immigration officer did not buy that ‘go through passport control and thus leave before midnight’ trick.

 

[snpark]

I remember many years ago a forum member got into trouble since the Immigration officer did not buy that ‘go through passport control and thus leave before midnight’ trick.

How. I mean according to the system you have departed legally. Transit lounge etc is exempt. So let's say he went through immigration at 10. Then he flight delayed and they didn't board until 01.00. How do they know he is still "in the country"

Is he liable for overstay and fine. Does an agent come to the gate and collect 1jt.

No. Sorry. That just sounds like a member making a faux pas. He probably got his flight date and time wrong with those funny late night flights and people fly a day late or early.

Years ago you'd see people hanging round the bag belts at 11 killing time to get the extra day and enter after midnight lol.

But yeh that story doesn't make any sense obviously. Feasibly totally impractical. I can't see departure immigration keeping an eye on every flight to make sure they left the same day.

Anyway it wasn't you so it matters not.

 

[centurion]

How. I mean according to the system you have departed legally. Transit lounge etc is exempt. So let's say he went through immigration at 10. Then he flight delayed and they didn't board until 01.00. How do they know he is still "in the country"

Is he liable for overstay and fine. Does an agent come to the gate and collect 1jt.

No. Sorry. That just sounds like a member making a faux pas. He probably got his flight date and time wrong with those funny late night flights and people fly a day late or early.

Years ago you'd see people hanging round the bag belts at 11 killing time to get the extra day and enter after midnight lol.

But yeh that story doesn't make any sense obviously. Feasibly totally impractical. I can't see departure immigration keeping an eye on every flight to make sure they left the same day.

Anyway it wasn't you so it matters not.

If passed the immigration counter, already out of the country.

 

[snpark]

Flight is 00.25am on 24 March. Still so many people on 24 March rolling up to check in early at 9pm lol. Our flight is midnight didn't we do well to be on time

 

[ChrisOnBali]

She can leave on the 8th. The permits start the day you arrive in and finish on the date they expire (in this case the 8th). You guys are overthinking this.
Even if she overstays 1 day she just needs to pay 1 juta at the airport and they don't make a huge drama out of it.

Thanks for clarifying.

Not sure how it's overthinking; 1 juta is 1 juta, a few days food for a backpacker, and would probably blow out of the water the idea of taking the flight on the cheaper day.

Presumably it'd also mean an uncomfortable delay at the airport even if it's routine, and nobody wants to get a black mark on somebody's immigration system however minor, so ideally to be avoided.

 

[ChrisOnBali]

I guess the clue is in the wording. Expiry. Leave on or before 8th May

The clue isn't exactly in the wording though, expiry and a date - it isn't clear if the expiry happens when that date happens, i.e. at 00:01 on the 8th, or at the end of that day - and of course it's English on an Indonesian form so you can't necessarily trust it to mean what it might mean on an English form.

Thanks for confirming though.

Back when I was doing the South East Asia lonely planet circuit I got caught by the 'But I arrived less than 30 x 24 hours ago' thing - the day count starts at 1 day, not zero !

 

[ChrisOnBali]

If passed the immigration counter, already out of the country.

Yep, understood, once you're airside you're no longer in the (or, any) country, she needs to have checked in and got past immigration by the time the extension expires, but could theoretically remain airside awaiting the flight even after it expires - but obviously silly to push it, as long as her flight is scheduled to leave before then, all's good.

I used to work doing software for British Airways in an office at T4 right next to some maintenance sheds which backed onto the main runway area, the smoking area for the mechanics was on the other side of the sheds and was technically airside so we'd joke that we had to leave the country just to go for a cigarette.

 

[snpark]

Thanks for clarifying.

Not sure how it's overthinking; 1 juta is 1 juta, a few days food for a backpacker, and would probably blow out of the water the idea of taking the flight on the cheaper day.

Presumably it'd also mean an uncomfortable delay at the airport even if it's routine, and nobody wants to get a black mark on somebody's immigration system however minor, so ideally to be avoided.

I'm sorry. I totally disagree. If you are "backpacking" and don't even have $60 even for emergency then you should not be travelling especially "backpacking" when you don't know what can happen. I assume they have insurance?

And for one day no it's not uncomfortable. It's an extra 2 mins at the office in the left side before immigration. Go there with the cash and passport and boarding card and just say sorry got the date wrong I should have left last night.

Since it was accidental and you are prepared it's no big deal. They will stamp you there and escort you or escort you to the immigration kiosk.

No harm done. Case closed. No black list or anything.

 

[snpark]

The clue isn't exactly in the wording though, expiry and a date - it isn't clear if the expiry happens when that date happens, i.e. at 00:01 on the 8th, or at the end of that day - and of course it's English on an Indonesian form so you can't necessarily trust it to mean what it might mean on an English form.

Thanks for confirming though.

Back when I was doing the South East Asia lonely planet circuit I got caught by the 'But I arrived less than 30 x 24 hours ago' thing - the day count starts at 1 day, not zero !

Sorry your maths doesn't math. 8th of May is 8th of May. From midnight and a second after 7th May until 23.59.59 and then ticks over to 9th.

Expiry is expiry. Weird how you don't get it. It's not cheese with a best before day recommended.

It's an actual physical date. The visa expires on that date. Meaning it's valid while it's still 8th. It becomes expired and expires when the day of the 8th expires too and becomes 9th

Anyway be out and passed through immigration by 23.59pm night on 8th to avoid having to pay a week's hotel and dinners $60 for illegal overstay lol

 

[ChrisOnBali]

I'm sorry. I totally disagree. If you are "backpacking" and don't even have $60 even for emergency then you should not be travelling especially "backpacking" when you don't know what can happen. I assume they have insurance?

And for one day no it's not uncomfortable. It's an extra 2 mins at the office in the left side before immigration. Go there with the cash and passport and boarding card and just say sorry got the date wrong I should have left last night.

Since it was accidental and you are prepared it's no big deal. They will stamp you there and escort you or escort you to the immigration kiosk.

No harm done. Case closed. No black list or anything.

So you suggest I reply to the young lady in question and say 'Doesn't really matter, they'll only pull you aside at the airport and fine you a million, you'll probably not miss your flight or anything, no big deal, a million is fine for you yes ?'.

That's what you'd say to your daughter perhaps ? - no, I suspect you'd want to be a little more helpful than that, answer the question she asked so she can get as long as she can here and still leave the country without paying extra or worrying about having hassle on departure.

You might be an experienced foreign traveller and have no fear of men in uniforms taking you aside, but not everyone is like you, and not everyone thinks 60 bucks is nothing.

 

[snpark]

If she's old enough to travel and backpack alone through Asia she needs to be more responsible and mature and organised

Be aware of visa rules. Be prepared for flights to get postponed or even cancelled especially regional budget flights. Example what will she do if it gets cancels. Believe me it happens all the time.

There's no sympathy from me. Sorry. Learn the hard way. That's what she will learn from this experience. Be ready for the unexpected especially Asia budget travel.

And again. Yes. She can check in and then go to the immigration office and pay etc plenty of time ahead. Then she is done and can go through immigration etc and be at the gate early for the boarding.

Does she have her visa already for the next country of destination?

Make sure all that organised or they will even deny her to check in without ticket and proof of accommodation on arrival.

Does her passport still have plenty of blank pages? Still valid for at least 6-12 months. The passport clean and not damaged or pages ripped torn etc

All these things can be overlooked. Even some countries still sometimes ask for COVID certificate

 

[ChrisOnBali]

Sorry your maths doesn't math. 8th of May is 8th of May.

I said "does that mean leave by the end of the 8th of May (which I guess is the case)" so yes, that's what I reckoned too, makes sense right; but just because you and I reckon it, that doesn't mean the Machiavellian minds behind the Indonesian visa system think that way.

You can, and did, make a compelling argument that the words suggest that's what it means, but it could also be expressed by a more fiendish mind as "It's the 8th of May now, expiry is on the 8th, so it's expired".

Same with the sneaky way that if you arrive at 11pm, you're in day 2 of your stay just one hour after you arrive; you're not 1 hour into a 30 x 24 hour period, which would make more sense but isn't how it works.

Surely you've come across cases with imigrasi and officialdom in general, especially in foreign countries where things seem clear but turn out being slightly different to how you expect.

It's been ages since I did short visas so while I reckoned the former myself too, I don't want to just pass on what I or somebody else reckons, so was asking if anybody knows for sure.

 

[ChrisOnBali]

There's no sympathy from me. Sorry. Learn the hard way. That's what she will learn from this experience. Be ready for the unexpected especially Asia budget travel.

Nobody is asking for your sympathy, it's a very simple question, and what 'experience' are you talking about - she's not overstayed, and I guess has plenty of passport pages, who was asking about passport pages ? - she's a pretty organised human being as far as I know, which isn't much at all, and is asking a question well before the time she needs to know the answer.

Jeez, I thought reddit was bad - "she needs to be more responsible and mature and organised" - in what way hasn't she been ? - and what business is that of yours anyway, she wants the answer to a simple question, not a lecture from Mr Stern World-Wise Travelling Matron.

and don't even have $60 even for emergency

Who said she doesn't ? - just because you have funds doesn't mean you are happy to waste them on easily avoidable fines ?

Please don't reply in any case, I wont again !