Smoking...

[sumyunggai]

On Dutch Indo forums there is a big demand for kretek btw. Some have made it a small but profitable side business.

illegal black market cigarette smuggling

 

[Anglian]

I can think of a few other things the government should look at before saying they are going to raise the price of cigs and say it is for health reasons. People are going to smoke if they want to even if the government does raise the prices.

On a side note, I was vaping before I moved here and my wife told me she rather me smoke cigs instead of vape. I know in the US vaping has become seen as a good alternative, but people still complain about that too. I wonder if vaping will increase.

According to Sky news this morning, Vape is not a healthy alternative as it causes problems to the blood which cause heart problems, as I nether smoke or Vape I didn't listen too carefully, but you pay your money and takes your chance,

 

[Scooterindo]

When I travel to the UK, at 10 quid a pack in the UK, I slip into a spiral of depression at the thought of being so weak willed that I will pay that much. I was talking to my niece last time I was back in the UK she was 16 then, and we were discussing my bad habit (the smoking one) and I tried to explain what the times were like back in the early 80s and the general attitude towards smoking, that was almost conducive towards the habit. Cigarette advertising everywhere and guests on TV shows sitting down for an interview and sparking up, she was shocked by this.

Obviously it was a long conversation which at the end she concluded that her grand children will probably look back at photographs of cigarette smokers the way our generation look back at old far east photos of people sat around smoking opium. Smart girl my niece, and the more I consider her point the more I think there is a lot of truth in that statement.

 

[jstar]

she concluded that her grand children will probably look back at photographs of cigarette smokers the way our generation look back at old far east photos of people sat around smoking opium. Smart girl my niece, and the more I consider her point the more I think there is a lot of truth in that statement.

Or she has seen Demolition Man a couple of times...

 

[Scooterindo]

Or she has seen Demolition Man a couple of times...

Yeah or that and there I was thinking that she was very deep and thoughtful for a sixteen year old for the last 2 years.
However its still remains a valid observation for consideration regardless of the source.

 

[Vicissidude]

Yeah or that and there I was thinking that she was very deep and thoughtful for a sixteen year old for the last 2 years.
However its still remains a valid observation for consideration regardless of the source.

So she's 18?

 

[Scooterindo]

So she's 18?

Now she is yes - wanted to send her a ticket to come out here but she is too busy with important school stuff A levels I think.

 

[Vicissidude]

Now she is yes - wanted to send her a ticket to come out here but she is too busy with important school stuff A levels I think.

Apologies Scoot.. I thought I had caught a discrepancy in your post, similar to saying "I'm turning 21 again" or "Scooter's turning 30? Jesus, how many 30th birthdays has he had?!" I thought I was so damn clever, but actually your post was fine!

 

[Vicissidude]

More info from my same friend, via his buddy who works in a cigarette factory: There will indeed be a price hike, but not to 50k. Maybe 5k higher than the current price. I hope that's all!

On the topic of vaping, I think it's kind of stupid. I agree with Tex's wife - If you're gonna smoke, just fucking smoke. But I don't see how it can be just as bad or even worse than smoking cigarettes, and I easily disregard studies that boast claims like that. If the headlines were more honest, they'd read, "New study confirms what we already know: inhaling concentrated nicotine vapor may not be healthy," but that doesn't automatically make it as bad as my current Marlboro habit.

I agree it's becoming more popular here in Indonesia. And even though I view its health risks as somewhere between nonsmoker and smoker, it's obviously still very addictive. People who vape seem to do so with a vengeance.

 

[nosox]

I have a friend who vapes and holy crap those things generate a lot of "smoke"
Personally, I smoke like its going out of style............. which apparently, it is

 

[jstar]

Yes it does generate a huge cloud. But hey, as long it's not harmful for the bystanders.. (That's the whole point isn't it?) So how many vape shops are there now in Jakarta? Three? On a population of... In Western Europe many self respecting towns of 100K+ inhabitants have one.

 

[Cupu Manik]

I have a friend who vapes and holy crap those things generate a lot of "smoke"
Personally, I smoke like its going out of style............. which apparently, it is

There are two kinds of vapers; cloud chaser and flavour chaser. Cloud chaser would do anything to generate thing that you called "smoke". Usually those who chase cloud love to learn some tricks that will make them famous. Blowing some circles and rectangles in the air, pleases people. Some stupids would defy the law of ohm and go sub ohm. This is mainly the reason behind the blew up device that you probably saw on the news, that cigarette companies would use for their black campaign "vaping is more dangerous than smoking".
I myself a flavour chaser. I don't generate steam that much, but I have collection of liquids that I like, just like wine collection. I prefer to use dripper not tank so that I don't keep too much liquid in my device, and I can have flavour culinary whenever I meet some friends who vapes or go to a vape fair.

Yes it does generate a huge cloud. But hey, as long it's not harmful for the bystanders.. (That's the whole point isn't it?) So how many vape shops are there now in Jakarta? Three? On a population of... In Western Europe many self respecting towns of 100K+ inhabitants have one.

Plenty. Check out their stores on IG you will find there are many vape shops around Jakarta. I don't know why they don't rent a place in main business area, probably those places aren't hipster enough for them.

 

[londo_edan]

I hate smoking and smokers. Disgusting anti-social habit and I'm amazed it hasn't been eradicated from the face of the earth. 'Sir' Walter Raleigh has a lot to answer for, what with fags and potatoes.

Travelling around a bit, RI appears, to me, to be way behind in introducing some legislation, punitive taxation, restrictions on tar content etc. to reduce the number of active, and passive smokers.

Double the price, triple it, anything to deter the purchase of fags and then spend the revenue on health-care, healthy-living education and promotions, R&D etc..

And do something about tobacco advertising, what's with all the ciggie adverts at the cinemas and on TV ?

Couldn't give a monkeys re the supply chain, they can grow something else. Some of the arguments in this thread are akin to the NRA's stance on gun control in the US, viz protecting the livelihoods of gun-makers.

As for the SPG's handing-out free fags in bars, malls, on the streets and beaches in places like Bali: absolutely reprehensible.


Time to go to the gym and clean out the old lungs (I've seen, within the last year or 2, guests smoking in health center's and gyms in Jakarta - with staff handing-out ashtrays !).

 

[Bad_azz]

The proposed price hike on ciggies will have a massive impact one way or another if it goes ahead & let's face it, it will likely go ahead.
I am curious how it will affect my neighbourhood- as we have fields full of tobacco all around us.
Will the workers get double pay if the price more than doubles?

Will it create so much unrest amongst the masses (& to be fair - masses are smokers here) that it stirs up riots?

Will it have a positive or negative impact on the economy?

I'm not really interested in the age old "I hate smokers & smoking " POVs .
I am more interested in the perceived economical/social impact.

http://bisniskeuangan.kompas.com/re...naik.hingga.rp.50.000.ini.tanggapan.sampoerna

Let's face it the rich boys making the rules in Jakarta won't notice the effect on their pockets.

I hate smoking and smokers. Disgusting anti-social habit and I'm amazed it hasn't been eradicated from the face of the earth. 'Sir' Walter Raleigh has a lot to answer for, what with fags and potatoes.

Travelling around a bit, RI appears, to me, to be way behind in introducing some legislation, punitive taxation, restrictions on tar content etc. to reduce the number of active, and passive smokers.

....

There's always one

 

[londo_edan]

As I've mentioned above, bring on the high prices, the higher the better.

 

[Jaime C]

I have a number of friends in Indonesia who smoke. Many can no longer smoke like Frank Gallagher in their home country's bars and pubs. Being in Indonesia allows them to smoke in 90% of places, it's like going back in time 50 years.

I don't smoke, and don't enjoy being in enclosed spaces that are smokey, especially if I'm eating. The one big meetup in Jakarta that I went to 5 years ago, that was held in a pub, the smoke was so bad my throat was sore for a couple of days. Just can't stand it.

Many westerners are respectful of others, but I can't count the times where (mostly Indonesian) people are smoking under non-smoking signs. Nonsmoking hotel rooms that reek of smoke. Elevators that smell like ashtrays. A little enforcement would be nice.

 

[londo_edan]

A little enforcement would be nice.

It seems worse in Jakarta where you often see people smoking in designated no-smoking areas.

However, the driving force for taxation rises is probably more pragmatic than reducing passive smoking risks. Someone, probably an economist, has put 2 and 2 together and realized that the level of smoking in RI will bankrupt BPJS and any similar health scheme in a few years. I imagine that the same arguments were probably put forward in W Europe, Aus, USA etc. when the great tobacco bubble was pricked. And lets hope something is done soon re sugar in food - another ticking healthcare time-bomb.

As a final 'I hate smoking and smokers rant' isn't it true that the reason its so difficult to get kretek fags outside RI, is that brands such as Dji Sam Soe and their ilk, are so toxic (read carcinogenic) that no other country would sanction their sale ?

 

[Jaime C]

I knew someone in the US who smoked clove cigarettes for a couple of years, in her 16-18 year old period. Her lungs got so screwed up, she was down to 30% lung function in her early 20's.

 

[Banana72]

last I heard the industry employs around 300,000 people , ie farmers factories distribution etc , for sure the multinationals will pull out philip morris at the sampoerna plants lost 5000 after the last small price rise .

because the economy here is so strong sic ! when the plants close there will be a lot of people unemployed , good luck to them !

lets not forget the tax revenue for the government , which will disappear..

A classic case of "shooting oneself in the foot"

I read a Forbes interview with Putra Sampoerna many years ago...one of the questions (and answer) that sticks to me was: So don't you feel responsible for the health of the people due to smoking? His answer: If you can give me a business alternative to employ millions of people, then I'm open to your suggestion. That was I think back in the mid 90s...and of course a few years later, he sold it to Philip Morris for around $4 billion (or $5 depending on the exchange rate..)

 

[Banana72]

I knew someone in the US who smoked clove cigarettes for a couple of years, in her 16-18 year old period. Her lungs got so screwed up, she was down to 30% lung function in her early 20's.

I'm not a smoker, but that doesn't sound right...so many people in Indonesia smoke clove cigarettes for many years, although I'm sure it might interfere with their lung function somehow, but I doubt that it reduces it to only 30%...maybe that person smoked over a pack a day or something?

Again- I'm not a smoker, so I wouldn't know...I choice of poison is booze lol.