Punishment for women who don't want to wear jilbab

[Pimpin]

I was here in 88. Many wore a jilbab. I don't get the ruckus about them wearing it. No matter the pressure anyone gets, at the end of the day, once they are adults they have the final say on whether they will wear it or not. They are responsible for what they do. Blaming others for their decisions if they do or others do for them is also a choice but a cop-out and a giving to others there power. It's their business no one elses.

 

[fastpitch17]

Everybody knows that islam prescribes women to cover their hair. If few women used to wear a jilbab here in indonesia 30 years ago, maybe they were less religious or ignorant about the laws concerning this.

Yes, that must be it. Someone explained they were all sinners and had to change. Or else? I really doubt they were less religious then. Less fanatical leadership but not less religious.

 

[fastpitch17]

I was here in 88. Many wore a jilbab. I don't get the ruckus about them wearing it. No matter the pressure anyone gets, at the end of the day, once they are adults they have the final say on whether they will wear it or not. They are responsible for what they do. Blaming others for their decisions if they do or others do for them is also a choice but a cop-out and a giving to others there power. It's their business no one elses.

So, if they wear it because their husband, who carries the right to do so, commands they wear it, it's their choice since they are adults? OK

 

[Pimpin]

So, if they wear it because their husband, who carries the right to do so, commands they wear it, it's their choice since they are adults? OK

Yep.

 

[fastpitch17]

Yep.

That's really stupid since it wasn't their choice. You disagreed with yourself.
You said:

at the end of the day, once they are adults they have the final say on whether they will wear it or not. They are responsible for what they do. Blaming others for their decisions if they do or others do for them is also a choice but a cop-out and a giving to others there power. It's their business no one elses

No, they didn't get the final say and yes you can blame someone else. Stop thinking it is your right to dominate over a Woman. That's a weak mans excuse. I would even venture to say that domination like that is trying to make up for other short comings.

 

[Nimbus]

I remember going on a date in Solo with a dentist who wore a hijab, she telling me her friends and herself wore a mask in Indonesian society and the hijab was part of that mask.

There's an old popular song in Indonesia saying "dunia ini panggung sandiwara", meaning the world is a theater stage. It's a mask as in a stage prop.

Indonesians are big in having a certain look in order to belong in a group. There's an obsession about uniforms. A jilbab is a type of uniform.

I met a bunch of high school friends a couple of years ago. Most were clad in Jilbab, none was pious enough to avoid hugging me. Well there was one who avoided touching, but she has been pious since high school.

It is a cycle we're going through. It's ironic that religion is seen by many in Indonesia as a form of freedom, as an expression of one's identity. This is due to three decades of Suharto's (mostly) secular dictatorship. I remember the wife of my mom's boss had to wear a wig in lieu of a jilbab, because wearing a jilbab outright would certainly hamper his husband's career.

 

[Pak Tani]

Someone explained they were all sinners and had to change. Or else?

Maybe people started learning about their religion, became aware of it's rulings and decided they wanted to abide by these rulings?

 

[fastpitch17]

Maybe people started learning about their religion, became aware of it's rulings and decided they wanted to abide by these rulings?

Ha Ha, it took them 1,400 years to become aware. Your grabbing at the air.

 

[William King]

That's really stupid since it wasn't their choice. You disagreed with yourself.
You said:

No, they didn't get the final say and yes you can blame someone else. Stop thinking it is your right to dominate over a Woman. That's a weak mans excuse. I would even venture to say that domination like that is trying to make up for other short comings.

What is stupid is you assuming all these women are being forced to wear hijab. Maybe a few are, but the vast majority I have meet choose, freely and willingly to do so.

Perhaps if you dropped the white knight attitude you might be able to see that. But then again perhaps it doesn't support your anti islam agenda to do so.

 

[Anglian]

Well it was indosair TV this evening for young ladies who don't know how to fit a jilbab, how to fit one, so it seems there is some pressure from somewhere to wear a jilbab if they are having to show women how to fit one. Still I expect the young ladies will still wear tight T-shirts, I hope

 

[Pimpin]

That's really stupid since it wasn't their choice. You disagreed with yourself.
You said:

No, they didn't get the final say and yes you can blame someone else. Stop thinking it is your right to dominate over a Woman. That's a weak mans excuse. I would even venture to say that domination like that is trying to make up for other short comings.

No I didn't disagree with myself. Just because he commands it, it doesn't take her choice away. Perhaps you blame others for your choices but in reality we all make our own choices.

Quite the assumption you thinking I believe I have the right to dominate a woman. Why the leap to that conclusion?

I agree one who is consistently dominating others most likely has short comings.

 

[fastpitch17]

What is stupid is you assuming all these women are being forced to wear hijab. Maybe a few are, but the vast majority I have meet choose, freely and willingly to do so.

Perhaps if you dropped the white knight attitude you might be able to see that. But then again perhaps it doesn't support your anti islam agenda to do so.

Stop assuming things. I am far from anti-Islam. Like I mentioned previously, I would defend anyone with their choice of garments worn or lack of them if they so desire. Not agreeing with all the local practices does not make one anti anything. I just believe that the current trend in hijab wearing was from influances from somewhere.

I asked why a different head covering wasn't incorporated to fit more with the local cultures instead of adopting a ME style. Never said I was against head covering but questioned the hijab. You can take that as white knight attitude all you like. Just because I don't care for the hijab style won't change society what so ever.

Indonesia isn't the ME and the current hijab trend in Indonesia is in it's infancy compared to the time Islam has been in existence in Indonesia, so, what started it? Some say because they are now influanced to better follow their religion. So be it. Who brought that message to them or did there come a mass enlightening from the heavans? Being still new, it had to come from somewhere. It seems no one actually wants to address that question except to apply faith to it.

OK, off to find my mighty white knight steed although I do believe he was lost in a battle many decades ago. Must be why my legs are so weak. Not from the riggers of battle, but from carrying that damn horse to them all.

 

[fastpitch17]

No I didn't disagree with myself. Just because he commands it, it doesn't take her choice away. Perhaps you blame others for your choices but in reality we all make our own choices.

Sure you did. ISIS says god commands them to chop off heads. I guess those rolling heads made a choice. I guess because a terrorist makes a claim they are following god's will their actions are correct. Maybe you get your guidence from a religious text that was written by men after the fact. Pick a religion. Perhaps god just sat you down and explained everything to you so you no longer need to blindly accept what is put before you as fact.

 

[William King]

Hmmmm... from Indonesian jilbabs to ISIS & terrorists.... not hard to ser your agenda, since it is not all that cunningly disguised.

 

[Nimbus]

Wait a second, those of you who say husbands can force their Indonesian wife to wear a jilbab, are you married to an Indonesian woman? Have you tried forcing your wife to change the way she dresses against her will? I know for sure that's not gonna fly with mine.

 

[William King]

Wait a second, those of you who say husbands can force their Indonesian wife to wear a jilbab, are you married to an Indonesian woman? Have you tried forcing your wife to change the way she dresses against her will? I know for sure that's not gonna fly with mine.

E to the Xactly.

 

[rabbit_39]

Wait a second, those of you who say husbands can force their Indonesian wife to wear a jilbab, are you married to an Indonesian woman? Have you tried forcing your wife to change the way she dresses against her will? I know for sure that's not gonna fly with mine.

I'm not married to one but have done enough work related to gender issues as well as know personal examples where the wife is relegated as second class citizen. On the one hand you can say that you know strong willed Indonesian women, but we all know there are many who are oppressed by the men in their family (husband, father, uncle) and even their peers,

 

[rabbit_39]

E to the Xactly.

There are other examples to the contrary.

 

[Nimbus]

I'm not married to one but have done enough work related to gender issues as well as know personal examples where the wife is relegated as second class citizen. On the one hand you can say that you know strong willed Indonesian women, but we all know there are many who are oppressed by the men in their family (husband, father, uncle) and even their peers,

Sure, in the kampungs it's probably more likely for the men to push their will, but I think peer pressure is a better predictor. Like I said, most Indonesians are big about fitting in and hate being the odd man (or woman) out. My mom doesn't give a flying fudge about what my dad thinks about the way she dresses, but if all her lady friends in the neighborhood decide to dress in a certain way, she would reluctantly follow suit. This includes signing up for a group t-shirt and other group stuff.

 

[gemima]

I'm not married to one but have done enough work related to gender issues as well as know personal examples where the wife is relegated as second class citizen. On the one hand you can say that you know strong willed Indonesian women, but we all know there are many who are oppressed by the men in their family (husband, father, uncle) and even their peers,

Totally agree - I work with a lot of ladies who wear hijab. Some wear it our of choice but others because they have been told to by their husband/ father. Being a women its something that we can easily talk about openly together. One colleague who has recently had to start to wearing one is nearly 40 and struggling so hard to get used to it. She hates it but has to obey her husband and he wants her to wear it. She is a highly qualified, smart lady and no shrinking violet.
Another chooses not to wear hijab during work but does wear it when she goes to university at the weekend so that she can fit in.
In my line of work I actually have done some research into the effects of hijab wearing in Indonesia on the hair & scalp and its not as bad as I assumed it would be. Ladies who wear tight fitting inners (fabric cap under the shawl - not everyone wears one) are more likely to get alopecia along the hairline on the forehead over years of wearing (10+ years). However, most women's hair/ scalp is pretty much the same as non-hijab wearers.