Plan B

harryopal

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Most people who are married to a WNI spouse, simply can't take 'the family' home with them though. (Try to get permanent residency in the EU or US nowadays, even an extended visa.) And then I'm not even talking about financial implications...
Before coming to Indonesia to relocate I went through the permanent residency process in Australia for my wife. The notion being that anytime want to come back we don't have to go through the visa application process,\.
 

jstar

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Yes @harryopal , but something like that would not fly in the US or so; if you have a green card, you can not just leave the country for longer periods and live virtually somewhere else. Besides having to apply for a reentry permit, USCIS does check if there is no pattern.

@Smallworld ; I'm afraid that the EU will more and more be on the same page, esp. after the refugee fiasco. It can not be that in one country you need to be able to speak the language and do tests even before you can go there (Netherlands), while in others family reunification is rather simple (Belgium). So the situation can be very different in a couple of years when there is more standardization. I think that is only a matter of time.
 
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Daniel50

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I know it looks bad, but I don't think Indonesia will turn into Yemen in my lifetime. Before moving out of the country, I would consider safe places like Yogya, Bali, and Manado.
Yogya this year. The groups mandate to watch for immorality in Islam and Christianization, among whatever else (It looks like also to kill one another with fumes from their bikes, one can only hope).

 

atlantis

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Manado, May 2017 when Masyarakat Manado forced Fahri Hamzah to shorten his trip to Manado and retreat back to Jakarta. And it was only Fahri. Don't want to imagine if any FPI clown would have the gut to show up.

 

Anglian

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Well I haven't a plan A or B or any other, I am going nowhere, there is nowhere else I fancy, all my neighbours know me, they all seem friendly, they know I'm not a real Muslim and accept that, I'm quite sure if the FPIs backers get into power the first thing they will do is get rid of the FPI as they basically are a liability, and the FPI will try and get more power which won't please their backers, so as Alfred E Neuman, said, Don't worry.
 

Nimbus

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I
Yogya this year. The groups mandate to watch for immorality in Islam and Christianization, among whatever else (It looks like also to kill one another with fumes from their bikes, one can only hope).

Harlah = hari lahir = birthday

This was actually a parade by GPK celebrating the birthday of their party, the PPP. Every major party in Indonesia has its own youth group, employed primarily for display of strength. PPP is an Islamic party, but it's one of the three parties sanctioned under Suharto. In other word, they're old school in a good way, not nearly as hard line as PKS and PBB.

Today the party is a member of the coalition supporting the current government. As an official supporter of Jokowi, they're not marching to create a caliphate.
 

Daniel50

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We are planning to live in Canada for a while now. We will reevaluate in years ahead. Indonesia is a great place to visit and we may decide to live there, or at least spend sometime. At this point I am not too worried about the radicals but by all accounts it has been growing. There are people in different levels of gov't , military, police etc. who are supporters. The process of change was somewhat slow in Pakistan (although Indonesia is culturally complex and different). I believe this is a crucial time for Indonesia. I like what General Tito is doing but we will see how things play out.

Radicalism is an issue and it is not just due to unemployment etc. but is also part of ideology eg. the police in Britain indicating 23,000 possible radicals with about 3,000 being watched is a significant problem, even if not statistically large based on population. There are some different voices in Islam on the problem eg the ideology needs to be addressed, they are getting it from the teachings to they are not real Muslims so Islam doesn't have a problem as they are not a part of Islam. Regardless some of the people who support the FPI etc believe they are the true defenders of Islam.

I am quite hopeful Anglian will be quite safe where he is and why would he move at his young age with good neighbors. In the future health and all permitting we will decide where we want to live and for how long, finances permitting. There is a level of uncertainty in life anyways. The ongoing levels of corruption and lack of clean judicial are also quite discouraging/frustrating. But the radicals are not the major part of our decision at this time. However, it does not mean I do not listen to the Indonesian voices who say it has grown substantially. Of course,I am not sure of how they quantify this.
 

Daniel50

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I


Harlah = hari lahir = birthday

This was actually a parade by GPK celebrating the birthday of their party, the PPP. Every major party in Indonesia has its own youth group, employed primarily for display of strength. PPP is an Islamic party, but it's one of the three parties sanctioned under Suharto. In other word, they're old school in a good way, not nearly as hard line as PKS and PBB.

Today the party is a member of the coalition supporting the current government. As an official supporter of Jokowi, they're not marching to create a caliphate.
Same guys up front, the one guy is a kickboxer. The end of the article says........"one of its main focuses is Intelligence Function, Seeking initial information about immorality, The establishment of illegal church churches, Islamic blasphemy activities, and activities that are inadvertently damaging the Moral Society of Islam". They don't seem that supportive of tolerance unless it is their brand. Here is the article:

http://mgzjogja.blogspot.ca/2015/02/diskripsi-beberapa-ormas-islam-di.html
 

sul1995

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However, it does not mean I do not listen to the Indonesian voices who say it has grown substantially. Of course,I am not sure of how they quantify this.
Based on a recent public school survey, 10% of teenagers sympathize with ISIS. It was discussed on Mata Najwa (Metro TV) a few weeks ago. If children are the future of this country, what kind of future is it going to be? 10% may not be a lot, but it can multiply as time goes by. Don't forget there's HTI which has millions of members. They may not be supporters of ISIS, but they want caliphate just the same. The government is banning HTI now, but I don't think it can stop them from meeting each other. They had grown too big to ban, SBY should have banned them more than 10 years ago.
 

fastpitch17

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Based on a recent public school survey, 10% of teenagers sympathize with ISIS. It was discussed on Mata Najwa (Metro TV) a few weeks ago. If children are the future of this country, what kind of future is it going to be? 10% may not be a lot, but it can multiply as time goes by. Don't forget there's HTI which has millions of members. They may not be supporters of ISIS, but they want caliphate just the same. The government is banning HTI now, but I don't think it can stop them from meeting each other. They had grown too big to ban, SBY should have banned them more than 10 years ago.
Truth is, most of the problems with all the radical groups could have been stopped by SBY. I would venture to say that his inaction towards them are the reasons the problems exist today.

Most Indonesians Oppose these People
https://en.tempo.co/read/news/2017/06/05/055881503/Most-Indonesians-Oppose-ISIS-HTI-Caliphate-Survey
 

Teabag

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Sadly this is also the case in Europe. Born in the wrong place with the wrong religion. No education, no job and can't get laid.
Unfortunately this ist true especially in the south and east countries (less the get laid problem...). Unemployment, or jobs which have a taste of slavery are common. And also the migrants from poorer EU countries have not allot of chances in the more developed ones, particularly if your last name ends with some letters like "ic". This is a very bad situation here in Switzerland, applicants with the name ending "ic" are most not even considered for an interview. And this has nothing to do with the religion, that would be the next stone in their way. Very sad.
 

Teabag

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Most people who are married to a WNI spouse, simply can't take 'the family' home with them though. (Try to get permanent residency in the EU or US nowadays, even an extended visa.) And then I'm not even talking about financial implications...
I did it, 22 years ago, it was a hassle with all the visa things and police visits at home, my girlfriend at that time (and now wife) got only a visa for 3 month and I had to give all the guaranties by letter. After the marriage it did not turn really better, if we wanted to travel around Europe, she needed always a visa. Finally she took the Swiss Passport and is now an EX-WNI. So when we will return, the same hassle starts again, then just in the opposite way, with the KITAP rules for ex-wni's.
 

Teabag

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I know it looks bad, but I don't think Indonesia will turn into Yemen in my lifetime. Before moving out of the country, I would consider safe places like Yogya, Bali, and Manado.
I hope and if it happens, then we go to lake Toba and surround us with Batak's, as my wife is originally from there.
 

jstar

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Of course there are more places like that here. One can think of south Maluku, Papua and NTT (e.g. Flores).
 

Daniel50

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Based on a recent public school survey, 10% of teenagers sympathize with ISIS. It was discussed on Mata Najwa (Metro TV) a few weeks ago. If children are the future of this country, what kind of future is it going to be? 10% may not be a lot, but it can multiply as time goes by. Don't forget there's HTI which has millions of members. They may not be supporters of ISIS, but they want caliphate just the same. The government is banning HTI now, but I don't think it can stop them from meeting each other. They had grown too big to ban, SBY should have banned them more than 10 years ago.
Yes well that is a lot of people given the population. fastpitch gave some more #'s. The numbers keep changing/evolving. There is still a huge potential for increasing problems. I read an article in JP where there were reports they shut down another Ahmadiyah mosque in Depok. There is quite a lot of support for this, as they are seen as a deviant by mainstream Islam. But who else becomes more and more unacceptable.
 

sul1995

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fastpitch17

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Heard "rumors" that SBY is planning to run again in 2019... :doh:
I don't think he can. The word is, he is trying to get his son Agus nominated which would be the same thing since he, SBY would be running the show. I doubt his son has any chance just like in the Jakarta election. The guy to worry about is Prabowo. If this guy gets in, it all over for Indonesia.
 

jstar

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Still, consider this scenario: Prabowo would have won. Jokowi would still be gubernor of the DKI Jakarta (or perhaps in some other job), Ahok would still be the vice.

Ramifications? No issues with FPI, no Freeport BS, no ministers who screw up all the time and who need to be pulled back into their cage, no backstabbing DPR speakers (i.e. the two F's), amazingly hard and effective counter terrorism action, good progress in MRT / LRT and other infrastructure projects, no alcohol bans in supermarkets, no breach of the peace and public disorder in the DKI, a better investment climate and export position ....

But yes, now it's too late. Promises will or have be(en) made, certain groups become almost untouchable, .... Now we're really going downhill.
 
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Daniel50

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