Plan B

Teabag

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We are planning to retire in Indonesia in the next 5 till 8 years. My wife is from Bandung and our ‘kids’ are already adults. As we will then be in the early/mid 50ths when we stop working and we will, hopefully, have another 20 till 30 years to go. The time between early retirement and the pension plan, we can cover with savings and rental income. So far, all looks convenient to enjoy our life in a warm country with the relatives there and a lot of travel around the islands.

But one thing we all face. It’s the possibility of growing radical religious tendency or political instability. If you think about your future in long term (depending on your age and expected lifespan) is there not always a kind of uncertainty that you cannot stay at your current place because of external factors which you cannot influence? Our financial situation allows us to quit the ‘working world’ a bit earlier and live a good life in a cheap country, but going back home would be financially, lets say, challenging.

So, what’s your plan B? Back home? Going to another Asian country? Face the problems which may arise?
 

Smallworld

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.....but going back home would be financially, lets say, challenging.

So, what’s your plan B? Back home? Going to another Asian country? Face the problems which may arise?
It depends what sort of problems and how wide spread they would be. If you have not enough funds for going back home your best option would be to leave to nearby country for some time.... Malaysia or Singapore depends from your personal preferences. Wait there until the "dust has settled in Indonesia" then come back to Indonesia.
 

Davita

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I'm all for having a plan B but trouble I found is you have to keep modifying it as the world changes...i.e. right now if I'd immigrated to the USA I'd be looking at a plan B.
The things I've learned about retirement planning is...
1. If you think you have enough money to retire early....you probably haven't.
2. Don't keep all your eggs in one basket.
3. Retirement isn't just giving up work...it means you can select the kind of jobs you'd like to do.
4. Spouses need to be included in the decision-making...it is usually harder for wives to give up the 'norm' than it is for guys.
5. Keep the mind active...as they say....if you don't use it you'll lose it. (OK no sex jokes please!)

I'll be 80 tomorrow and my current plan A is to wake-up in the morning. If I achieve that I'll start working on my plan B.
 

Teabag

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1. If you think you have enough money to retire early....you probably haven't.
....
....
4. Spouses need to be included in the decision-making...it is usually harder for wives to give up the 'norm' than it is for guys.
It's never enough. I learned in my life, if you make a budget, double it and then you'll be save. Spouse has actually included me into her decision to go home, the idea of an early stopp is about since 5 years around.

Good idea from smallworld, going to another Asian country, except Singapore, If we go there, we also can go back home from the financial perspective.

I love Davitas Plan A... Any other Plan B's ?
 

Nasigan

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Teabag, in a way it is good you plan to move here only in 5 to 8 years than you can see what happens with the next election in 2019 and like smallworld write all depens what kind of problems and how wide spread but I think if it's really going wrong with this fundamentalist Muslims that a temporary stay in a nearby country can turn out to be a (very) long stay.
to me a plan B should be a move out of Indonesia and I have in mind to move to Vietnam buuuut my wife don't like the idea... back to my country ? I don't like the it and it's to expensive. last option Bali.
What I know now is that I am not going to wait until 2019 to move out of java.
 

fastpitch17

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If things get bad here I will just move North to the Toba area or even to Kalimantan. Surround myself with Batak or Dyak. If I can't and things get bad, I will not go down without a fight. Sometimes Plan B is just going with the day.
 

Teabag

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last option Bali.
This I also have considered. First move to the 'save' places inside Indo, than Bali and my personal Plan B would be 'Thailand', although the language is probably not to be learned and the political stability depends always on the Army there. As a Plan B2 we also could live in a warmer mid European Country, like Spain, South of France, or Italy.
 

harryopal

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"It's not the destination, it's the journey. " If nothing else you can do a lot of on line globe trotting checking out the many and varied options before you make your final decision.
My usual plan B is "what is the bottom line?" What is the minimum necessary to survive if things go completely wrong? For me, having a reserve fund to get you out of a dire situation would seem to be the bottom line.
But life is a health hazard. Any sensible person would not get out of bed but just as sure as you have made that commitment there is bound to be an earthquake or a tsunami so staying in bed really isn't the answer.
My wife is from Bandung and is Muslim but she prefers Bali and feels it is a lot safer because of the Balinese concept of Karma which she thinks influences behaviour in a benign way.
 

Smallworld

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This I also have considered. First move to the 'save' places inside Indo, than Bali and my personal Plan B would be 'Thailand', although the language is probably not to be learned and the political stability depends always on the Army there. As a Plan B2 we also could live in a warmer mid European Country, like Spain, South of France, or Italy.
If you are looking for a Mediterranean warm climate why not to try Cyprus or Greece...wouldn't it be much cheaper than South France and Italy (especially north Italy which is more expensive)?

My plan B would be simple... going back home.
 

jstar

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Most people who are married to a WNI spouse, simply can't take 'the family' home with them though. (Try to get permanent residency in the EU or US nowadays, even an extended visa.) And then I'm not even talking about financial implications...
 

Daniel50

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Malaysia has quite a few English speakers, is relatively safe (I think) and has a retirement program. I think Bali could be a good option at this point anyways. Also, possibly Lake Toba, around the Dayaks or barricading in with fastpitch if necessary.
 

Smallworld

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Most people who are married to a WNI spouse, simply can't take 'the family' home with them though. (Try to get permanent residency in the EU or US nowadays, even an extended visa.) And then I'm not even talking about financial implications...
I agree with you it is hard but not impossible. There are some mixed marriage couples living in EU... If they can do it why I cannot. Those mixed couples quite often struggle financially as well. From what I know my wife can live with me in Poland. After 3 years living there she will get PR. Financially it is the same as Indonesia. There is no difference if my wife is Indonesian or from Ukraine. Please keep in mind this is MY own plan B. It is the simplest and cheapest plan. The hard part would be that my wife would have to learn new language. House and food is not a concern.
 

vocalneal

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we will, hopefully, have another 20 till 30 years to go.
is there not always a kind of uncertainty
It has always be thus. We just happen at the present to be living in a period or "relative" calm. Take it in small lumps say 5 to ten year increments. OK ten year ones.
Nothing is absolute. Pick somewhere away from the madding crowd. Is Ambon over all their troubles yet?
 

Davita

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Is Ambon over all their troubles yet?
Co-incidentally.... the Rektor of UKIM (Christian University of Moluccas) was having dinner in our house in Bali last evening. I asked that very question and he said everything was quiet but there is an underwhelm of concern that a firebrand like Rizieq could stir.
I've been to Ambon and Saparua and witnessed the carnage there and it isn't somewhere I'd like to be at anytime.
Imo the trouble isn't so much the conflict of religion but of youth unemployment...if there was some way to keep those young men employed I think it would alleviate some of the tension.
We discussed this and I suggested that if the bay in Ambon could accommodate large cruise ships to anchor it could help..at very little capital cost...to develop a tourist industry which would generate employment. I think I've convinced my wife's friend (they were both Indonesia's Youth Ambassadors cruising around Asia to promote ASEAN in 1978) and he said he will return and 'float' my idea to his colleagues in the Ambon government.
 

vocalneal

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Imo the trouble isn't so much the conflict of religion but of youth unemployment...if there was some way to keep those young men employed I think it would alleviate some of the tension.
Sadly this is also the case in Europe. Born in the wrong place with the wrong religion. No education, no job and can't get laid.
 

Nimbus

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I know it looks bad, but I don't think Indonesia will turn into Yemen in my lifetime. Before moving out of the country, I would consider safe places like Yogya, Bali, and Manado.
 

dafluff

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Imo the trouble isn't so much the conflict of religion but of youth unemployment...if there was some way to keep those young men employed I think it would alleviate some of the tension.
This is actually very true. The "traditional" way of dealing with a large population of unemployed young men is to send them to war. This has been true for almost all of history. I did read somewhere that one of the best predictor of coming social unrest is the number of unemployed, unmarried young men.

Anyway, back on topic. Most laid back tropical paradises are unfortunately prone to occasional unrest, so if you can afford not to there is no sense in putting all your eggs in one basket. For this reason I am almost certain I will never give up my WNA status, certainly not as long as Indonesia doesn't allow dual citizenship.

As I am not yet in retirement age, my plan B is to leave Indonesia temporarily and take any survival jobs available, and possibly return when things quite down.
 

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