More Floggings in Aceh

[Vanhelsing]

The woman most recently flogged was punished for, what was it again? Oh, yeah, that's right - standing too close to her boyfriend.

Nineteen-year-old Indonesian students who received 100 lashes were among a group of people flogged in the conservative province of Aceh, which adheres to Sharia law.

.A man found guilty of sex outside marriage was also flogged at least 22 times by the person delivering the punishment, who was dressed in long robes and a hood. His partner, who is two-months pregnant, is still waiting for her fate to be decided.
In such situations, officials in the province usually order the flogging of women after they give birth.

https://www.rt.com/news/368442-indonesia-woman-flogged-man/

 

[waarmstrong]

How about the boy friend? Oh, never mind; don't want to clutter up the forum with questions that have obvious answers.

 

[sumyunggai]

How about the boy friend? Oh, never mind; don't want to clutter up the forum with questions that have obvious answers.

It says "A total of five people, including two women and three men, were caned "

So it seems like they also went for the boyfriends, in general.

Indonesia's medieval jurisprudence has perhaps yet to catch up with Saudi Arabia.

 

[Vanhelsing]

I was just looking for thread starters you had contributed, waarmstrong.

After 3, Cubs up seven zip.
After 5, seven - two.Still seven - two after 7
Still seven - two after 8
Top of the 9th Cubs record a 2 run homer, now nine - two.


Final: Cubs win 9 to 3; there will be a game seven

Bravo.

 

[Euc-]

How about the boy friend? Oh, never mind; don't want to clutter up the forum with questions that have obvious answers.

http://jakarta.coconuts.co/2016/11/...marital-sex-rise-public-floggings-aceh-raises

The 34-year-old woman who yelled in pain had been found guilty of spending time in close proximity with a man who was not her husband in contravention of Aceh's Islamic regulations.She was lashed seven times with a rattan cane by a man wearing long robes and a hood, with just slits for the eyes.
"It hurts so bad," the woman said, raising her arms into the air, as she was beaten.
The 32-year-old man with whom she was caught was also flogged seven times.

 

[Euc-]

Controversial opinion: No matter how ludicrous their laws may be, they are their laws. People who choose to live there should abide by them, or suffer the consequences if caught breaking them.

How many times have I read on Facebook on the drug trafficker executions that "it's their own fault, that's the law in Indonesia and they knew what they were getting into when they choose to get on the plane"..

 

[jukung11]

Controversial opinion: No matter how ludicrous their laws may be, they are their laws. People who choose to live there should abide by them, or suffer the consequences if caught breaking them.

How many times have I read on Facebook on the drug trafficker executions that "it's their own fault, that's the law in Indonesia and they knew what they were getting into when they choose to get on the plane"..

That is an interesting observation I never thought about. They are Indonesian citizens, correct? Do they have any restrictions on travel in Indonesia? They can just hop on a bus to Medan, right?

On another note, I believe the article stated that they received 100 lashes making the the most violent enforcement of the law I have read to date. I thought most could not be sentenced to 100 and I have not seen published articles of it being enforced with the maximum sentence.

 

[sumyunggai]

Controversial opinion: No matter how ludicrous their laws may be, they are their laws. People who choose to live there should abide by them, or suffer the consequences if caught breaking them.

How many times have I read on Facebook on the drug trafficker executions that "it's their own fault, that's the law in Indonesia and they knew what they were getting into when they choose to get on the plane"..

There is a bit of a difference between choosing to visit Indonesia from your own country and someone who had the misfortune to be born there. I know people who formerly lived in Aceh, but they would not now return and their land is abandoned, this is due to sharia. This situation is not remotely comparable .

 

[fastpitch17]

To correct the idea that someone received 100 lashes for standing too close to her boyfriend. No matter what, it is all barbaric.
2 teens, both 19 received 100 lashes for sex outside marriage
2 (a man and a woman) received 7 lashes each for association.
1 man received 22 lashes for sex outside marriage (I guess they are more lenient on men then teens.
1 woman who is pregnant awaits her sentence when she delivers the child.

What Indonesia should be yelling about is that this is not only inhuman, it's what the likes of the FPI and the other nut case hardliners want to bring to mainstream Indonesia.

 

[Euc-]

There is a bit of a difference between choosing to visit Indonesia from your own country and someone who had the misfortune to be born there. I know people who formerly lived in Aceh, but they would not now return and their land is abandoned, this is due to sharia. This situation is not remotely comparable .

Obviously different, yet still even though they are born there; nobody forces them to stay there. They are able to, as someone earlier mentioned, get on the bus to Medan (or wherever) and start a new life if they do not want to adhere to that way of living.

I understand that I might have a bit of a different opinion when it comes to moving away from ones birthplace, being brought up as somewhat of a nomad; 10 countries before I turned 18, 5 since. I do believe however, that as long as people have an opportunity to move away if they don't like it, why not let the people who do wish to live in such a way do their thing. Who are we to tell them that that way of living is wrong and our/whatever way is right? If they believe in the correctness of their ways, let them be, up there in Aceh that is.

 

[sumyunggai]

Obviously different, yet still even though they are born there; nobody forces them to stay there. They are able to, as someone earlier mentioned, get on the bus to Medan (or wherever) and start a new life if they do not want to adhere to that way of living.

I understand that I might have a bit of a different opinion when it comes to moving away from ones birthplace, being brought up as somewhat of a nomad; 10 countries before I turned 18, 5 since. I do believe however, that as long as people have an opportunity to move away if they don't like it, why not let the people who do wish to live in such a way do their thing. Who are we to tell them that that way of living is wrong and our/whatever way is right? If they believe in the correctness of their ways, let them be, up there in Aceh that is.

You appear to be calling for ethnic cleansing. Actually we have had that already in Aceh: http://www.cnnindonesia.com/nasiona...ungsi-aceh-singkil-di-tapanuli-butuh-bantuan/ (This followed church burnings, and the Indonesian government (inevitably) coming down on the side of the Islamist mob).

 

[Euc-]

You appear to be calling for ethnic cleansing. Actually we have had that already in Aceh: http://www.cnnindonesia.com/nasiona...ungsi-aceh-singkil-di-tapanuli-butuh-bantuan/ (This followed church burnings, and the Indonesian government (inevitably) coming down on the side of the Islamist mob).

Are you completely out of your mind? Where do I call for the forced removal by way of intimidation, physical violence or worse of people of a certain ethnicity/religion ?

 

[Dan]

I like the title of this RT article more than the original AFP it parrots with the title of "Indonesian WOMAN Flogged for Close Proximity With a Man."

http://www.france24.com/en/20161128-indonesian-woman-flogged-close-proximity-with-man

Of course, the man was also flogged but the emphasis is on how women must be protected from their vile, patriarchal relatives even when the penalty was carried out equally for both sexes and the fact that more men than women were flogged this go 'round. The emphasis is taken away from the use of corporal punishment and made into sensationalist dreck about wife beating Muslims. The majority of articles on this issue have a similar slant, every time they're written with paranoia about women being beaten.

There are problems with the way Aceh approaches corporal punishment and policing morality. When it is reduced to white knighting that pisses me off.

 

[Dan]

Controversial opinion: No matter how ludicrous their laws may be, they are their laws. People who choose to live there should abide by them, or suffer the consequences if caught breaking them.

I used to hold this opinion about Aceh's implementation of Qanun Aceh, after all, Aceh is the land of the indigenous Acehnese and Gayonese people. These penalties have widespread support among Acehnese people, as well as separatism.

What you need to understand is that for the Acehnese, Qanun Aceh is their expression of Acehnese autonomy. They tend to believe that this is their ticket to a kind of independence from Jakarta. That's how it is played up by the various post-GAM factions who now rule Aceh. In the absence of separatist politics I think the Acehnese people might be more amenable to another way. They'd still be conservative and religious, they're Acehnese, but their true goal is simply to not be part of Indonesia. Nothing in the writings of Hasan di Tiro, the father of Aceh nationalism, really suggests he wanted an ultra-religious Acehnese state or a return to the Sultanate.

But excusing Qanun Aceh or any other kind of adat to trump individual freedoms is a fig leaf for oppression. Yes, it is what the local population wants, and truth be told they want Javanese transmigrants and Chinese Indonesians expelled and every church shuttered, but it isn't a way forward for Aceh.

 

[Nasigan]

Sorry Dan I can't open your attachment France 24 it says "error 400"

 

[Dan]

Sorry Dan I can't open your attachment France 24 it says "error 400"

That's OK. You're not missing anything. It gave me errors earlier when I first saw it. Here's a fair use of the text:

"The 34-year-old woman who yelled in pain had been found guilty of spending time in close proximity with a man who was not her husband in contravention of Aceh's Islamic regulations.She was lashed seven times with a rattan cane by a man wearing long robes and a hood, with just slits for the eyes.
"It hurts so bad," the woman said, raising her arms into the air, as she was beaten.
The 32-year-old man with whom she was caught was also flogged seven times."

Emphasis added is my own. And this is how it almost always is with articles concerning corporal punishment in Aceh. "Woman Flogged," and then it will say "people" were whipped instead of admitting it was a mixed crowd of men and women. At least this go 'round they decided to acknowledge men get caned too.

 

[fastpitch17]

I like the title of this RT article more than the original AFP it parrots with the title of "Indonesian WOMAN Flogged for Close Proximity With a Man."

http://www.france24.com/en/20161128-indonesian-woman-flogged-close-proximity-with-man

Of course, the man was also flogged but the emphasis is on how women must be protected from their vile, patriarchal relatives even when the penalty was carried out equally for both sexes and the fact that more men than women were flogged this go 'round. The emphasis is taken away from the use of corporal punishment and made into sensationalist dreck about wife beating Muslims. The majority of articles on this issue have a similar slant, every time they're written with paranoia about women being beaten.

There are problems with the way Aceh approaches corporal punishment and policing morality. When it is reduced to white knighting that pisses me off.

No Dan, it may have been three men and two Woman this time around but one Woman is still on the hook so it will be three and three in actuality. I was wondering how it can be justified that teens get 100 lashes and a mature male gets 22 for the same offence? Ache is going to keep doing this until the Central Government steps in and that possibility is pretty remote. The only thing Indonesia can do is to do all they can to keep it out of other areas.

 

[Dan]

No Dan, it may have been three men and two Woman this time around but one Woman is still on the hook so it will be three and three in actuality. I was wondering how it can be justified that teens get 100 lashes and a mature male gets 22 for the same offence? Ache is going to keep doing this until the Central Government steps in and that possibility is pretty remote. The only thing Indonesia can do is to do all they can to keep it out of other areas.

Why on Earth would they step in? They wrote the Law on Governing Aceh that gave them not only the express right to do this crap, it even INSISTS that the representatives in the Aceh government MUST enforce Qanun Aceh! To intervene they would be contradicting themselves.

Here's the two scenarios in order of likelihood:

1.) The Central Government will continue to be mum on Aceh's Qanun Aceh and the rights of Indonesian citizens in Aceh as long as Partai Aceh (i.e. GAM) stays mum on Aceh separatism.

2.) Aceh's representatives do something that embarrasses Indonesia (e.g. stone a couple instead of lash them) and they step in to do damage control on the international scene.

I actually expect they won't do anything in the case of #2. As long as the Acehnese remain quiet about independence they will look the other way while Aceh's elite cane people and maintain control of all the good land and lofty positions for themselves.

 

[Davita]

I have a brilliant new idea...we can build a wall and get the Acehnese to pay for it...

 

[Dan]

Now as to keeping it out of other areas... I'm pessimistic about that too. Aceh's expression of adat is encouraging others to do the same crap. Don't you worry, you'll be seeing more iterations of shari'a bylaws pop up. They'll get challenged and taken down mostly, but what Aceh has a host of other people want. Consider the neighboring Minangkabau, some of their leaders are pushing for the same recognition Aceh got! They're just as religious, and perhaps they'll eventually get the same sort of recognition and it will keep spreading from there.

Make no mistake, adat is going to get downright cancerous if Indonesia doesn't do something about it.