Spot on.
And like with animals, only the fittest survive....
INFORMATION AND COMMUNITY FOR EXPATS IN INDONESIA
Middle Class Under Pressure
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And like with animals, only the fittest survive....
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I call bull shit in your idea that the previous Industrial revolutions kept employment high and this new shinny AI will do the same. The previous revolutions influenced increases in productivity and the ability to create new products. People were needed to operate all these new ways and to manage those people and the technology. AI is designed to eliminate the worker putting computers and robotics in their place. There is no future for many upcoming employees.
As before the job profile will change. Like we went from agriculture to industry.
Some manual jobs will disapear, new jobs will be created.
IT engineer, programmer, data analyst, sport coach or golf teacher didn't exist 40 years ago.
The key problem is will the education system adapt ?
On the other hand we will still need butchers, bakers and brick layers, jobs that many people don't want to do anymore.
Anyway, nobody is going to take my job away. Pensioner is a sure value.... Till the country goes broke....
I agree .
I also agree with what Bill Gates said below , although my opinion has no value as I don't know much about AI .
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Fom https://www.cnbc.com/2025/03/26/bill-gates-on-ai-humans-wont-be-needed-for-most-things.html
Title : Bill Gates: Within 10 years, AI will replace many doctors and teachers—humans won’t be needed ‘for most things’
By Tom Huddleston Jr. , published in Mar 2025
Poster's Note : irrelevant changes in the article were made
Over the next decade, advances in artificial intelligence will mean that humans will no longer be needed “for most things” in the world, says Bill Gates ...
“with AI, over the next decade — great medical advice, great tutoring will become a commonplace” Gates said ...
The result will be rapid advances in AI-powered technologies that are accessible and touch nearly every aspect of our lives, Gates has said, ...
“It’s very profound and even a little bit scary — because it’s happening very quickly, and there is no upper bound,” Gates told .
... Gates reaffirmed his belief that certain types of jobs will likely never be replaced by AI, noting that people probably don’t want to see machines playing baseball, for example.
The debate over how, exactly, most humans will fit into this AI-powered future is ongoing. Some experts say AI will help humans work more efficiently — rather than replacing them altogether — and spur economic growth that leads to more jobs being created.
Others, like Microsoft AI CEO Mustafa Suleyman, counter that continued technological advancements over the next several years will change what most jobs look like across nearly every industry, and have a “hugely destabilizing” impact on the workforce.
“These tools will only temporarily augment human intelligence,” Suleyman wrote in his book “The Coming Wave,” . “They will make us smarter and more efficient for a time, and will unlock enormous amounts of economic growth, but they are fundamentally labor replacing.”
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Talking specifically about doctors and teachers , since long time ago I noticed that most of their work were/are very inefficient .
In my long life and school experience , never found a good doctor and had only 1 good teacher (in 19 school years).
In my view , for knowing what sickness I have & the appropriate medicine , I would prefer to first check my book "Johns Hopkins Symptoms and Remedies: The Complete Home Medical Reference" and search the internet for information ; than quickly going to the doctor .
Teachers repeating (badly in most of the cases) the same thing year after year also does not make sense to me . If I could decide for a country , I would hire some very good teachers and make videos of their teachings to distribute to the whole country (in DVDs for example) .
In my long life and school experience , never found a good doctor and had only 1 good teacher (in 19 school years).
In my view , for knowing what sickness I have & the appropriate medicine , I would prefer to first check my book "Johns Hopkins Symptoms and Remedies: The Complete Home Medical Reference" and search the internet for information ; than quickly going to the doctor .
Teachers repeating (badly in most of the cases) the same thing year after year also does not make sense to me . If I could decide for a country , I would hire some very good teachers and make videos of their teachings to distribute to the whole country (in DVDs for example) .
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Helpful Herbert
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Not sure how AI is going to control a class full of angry teenagers
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That will be aided by AI controlled lasers. Zap, zap, zap. Gee, everyone sitting nice and quiet now.
harryopal1
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Interesting question. As AI develops self learning capacity I daresay it will offer a variety of possibilities.
Gemini is a very basic under-developed AI tool so I put that question to it and it said:
How would a developed AI deal with a class of angry teenagers?
That's a fascinating and complex scenario! A developed AI, far beyond our current capabilities, would likely approach a class of angry teenagers with a nuanced and multi-faceted strategy, focusing on de-escalation, understanding, and finding constructive outlets for their emotions. Here's a potential approach:
1. Environmental Assessment and Data Gathering:
- Sensory Input Analysis: The AI would immediately process all available sensory data: tone of voice, body language, facial expressions, the overall atmosphere in the room, and any specific triggers that might be apparent.
- Historical Data Recall: If the AI has interacted with these students before or has access to their records (with appropriate ethical considerations), it would recall any relevant history of behavioral patterns, known stressors, or past incidents.
- Real-time Sentiment Analysis: Advanced natural language processing would allow the AI to analyze the content and emotional tone of any verbalizations, gauging the intensity and nature of the anger (frustration, resentment, fear, etc.).
- Non-Threatening Presence: The AI would project a calm, neutral, and non-judgmental demeanor. This could involve adjusting its vocal tone, physical presence (if it has a physical form), and communication style to avoid further agitation.
- Creating Space: If physically possible, the AI might subtly adjust the environment to provide more personal space for the students, reducing feelings of being crowded or threatened.
- Active Listening (even without ears): The AI would demonstrate that it is "hearing" and processing their anger by acknowledging their feelings (e.g., "I sense a great deal of frustration in the room").
- Validating Emotions (without necessarily agreeing with the cause): Phrases like, "It sounds like you are all feeling very strongly about something," can help students feel heard and understood, which is crucial for de-escalation.
- Open-Ended Inquiry: The AI might initiate conversation with open-ended questions designed to encourage students to articulate the reasons for their anger (e.g., "Can anyone tell me what's causing this distress?").
- Identifying Common Themes: As students speak, the AI would analyze their responses to identify recurring themes, shared grievances, or a central issue fueling the collective anger.
- Differentiating Individual Experiences: While acknowledging the group dynamic, the AI would also be attuned to individual expressions of anger, recognizing that the intensity and underlying causes might vary among students.
- Structured Communication: The AI could propose a structured way for students to express their concerns, perhaps by taking turns speaking or using a digital platform for anonymous input.
- Summarizing and Reflecting: To ensure understanding and to help students feel heard, the AI would periodically summarize the points being raised and reflect the emotions being expressed.
- Guiding Towards Solutions: Once the underlying issues are clearer, the AI could gently guide the conversation towards potential solutions or compromises, encouraging the students to participate in finding resolutions.
- Providing Information: If the anger stems from a misunderstanding or lack of information, the AI could provide accurate and relevant details.
- Suggesting Coping Mechanisms: The AI might offer suggestions for managing anger and frustration, such as mindfulness exercises, relaxation techniques, or conflict resolution strategies.
- Connecting to Human Support: Recognizing its limitations, the AI would know when to involve human counselors, teachers, or administrators who are trained to deal with intense emotional situations. It would frame this as providing additional support rather than escalating the situation.
It's crucial to remember the ethical implications of an AI in such a sensitive role. Issues of privacy, data security, manipulation, and the potential for bias would need to be carefully addressed in the design and deployment of such an AI. The AI should act as a facilitator and support system, not as a replacement for human empathy and understanding.
In essence, a developed AI would strive to be a calm, intelligent, and empathetic presence, using its advanced capabilities to understand the roots of the anger and guide the students towards constructive communication and resolution, while always prioritizing their safety and well-being.
======
If as the Stephen Fry narrated video suggests AI develop along the lines indicated then I guess classroom robots might be armed with an electroconsulsive system and give unruly teenager a bit of shock therapy. That might work.
Shadrach
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this was a very thorough, and boring analysis of dealing with a roomful of angry teenagers! You suggest that a (I Assume), Robot type figure standing in front of a bunch of Students. Analyzing and trying to come up with a solution, of what to do with the situation. You said the Robot should have empathy? That is an emotion, and I thought machines don't have emotions? Most of the analysis was good, staying calm, finding out whats the problem, is it certain students making the complaint, ( trouble makers), asking the students if they have a solution, Finally getting a Human to come intervene.
i like the last suggestion of giving them electroshock therapy! Or maybe fill the room with unseen THC extract, and get them all Stoned! Then bring out milk and cookies, and put them on the table. While their stuffing their faces, the kids will have forgotten all about the problem, and will later, find a new one!
These are the top 10 countries putting the most money into AI check out who’s on the list.
One of the primary goals of any government is to maintain a low unemployment rate and maintain prosperity of their own people. A high unemployment can lead to social unrest and destabilise the nation. If governments believe that investing in AI would significantly increase unemployment, it’s unlikely they would support such investments. It's important to remember that governments in developed countries rely on teams of scientists and experts to guide their decisions., not the opinion from random people on the internet. And I believe there are not many people out there will call these government decision to heavily invest in AI are 'bulshit' idea. But this is not to suggest that they can ignore the need to retrain and adapt their workforce.
Also keep in mind the AI development have started from 'Alan Turing' era since 1930s and there are already a few industrial revolution and where we are now. Did the unemployment rate increase ? The history has proven that the unemployment rate is it much to do with economic cycle rather than augmenting human with machine and machine learning. Just observe the historical data in Post #5.
See Also what what the prominent people in forefront of AI are saying about AI replacing human.
This is what the top people who know well about the future of AI are saying about the future of AI to replace human :
NVIDIA's Jensen Huang 'No AI can replace 100% of a job, but many can replace 80% of what we do'
In a recent interview with World Wide Technology, Jensen Huang dived into how AI is more likely to augment jobs than fully replace them.
Also Jensen Huang NVDIA CEO. the hardware, brain. behind the AI engine.
Nvidia’s billionaire CEO says AI can do a lot of things—except take his job | Fortune
Jensen Huang says AI will act like an assistant, not as a replacement, for humans.
Like many things in life, AI only becomes dangerous to humanity when it grows beyond human control. Before AI ever reaches the theoretical threshold of Artificial Superintelligence (ASI), governments, guided by expert recommendations can intervene and halt its development if needed. We have seen this approach before, such as with gene editing, modifying embryos where strict regulations were put in place to prevent the creation of so-called "designer babies" or ethically problematic outcomes similar to Frankenstein or Dracula.
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Shadrach
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Hah, you really are a Dreamer, to believe Governments really care about the citizens! They only do what is needed to keep the Tax revenue coming in, to line all the Rich, and Politicians pockets! If they cared about the People, Nuclear Bombs would never have been created! Nor non- biodegradable Plastic, or the Deforestation of almost all the Trees! Or giving The Rich Huge Tax breaks, and Taxing only the Middle class and Poor!These are the top 10 countries putting the most money into AI check out who’s on the list.
One of the primary goals of any government is to maintain a low unemployment rate and maintain prosperity of their own people. A high unemployment can lead to social unrest and destabilise the nation. If governments believe that investing in AI would significantly increase unemployment, it’s unlikely they would support such investments. It's important to remember that governments in developed countries rely on teams of scientists and experts to guide their decisions., not the opinion from random people on the internet. And I believe there are not many people out there will call these government decision to heavily invest in AI are 'bulshit' idea.
But this is not to suggest that they can ignore the need to retrain and adapt their workforce.
See Also what what the prominent people in forefront of AI are saying about AI replacing human
This is what the top people who know well about the future of AI are saying about the future of AI to replace human :
NVIDIA's Jensen Huang 'No AI can replace 100% of a job, but many can replace 80% of what we do'
In a recent interview with World Wide Technology, Jensen Huang dived into how AI is more likely to augment jobs than fully replace them.www.wwt.com
Also Jensen Huang NVDIA CEO. the hardware, brain. behind the AI engine.
AI is not going to replace humans, says Nvidia CEO. But it might help them.Nvidia’s billionaire CEO says AI can do a lot of things—except take his job | Fortune
Jensen Huang says AI will act like an assistant, not as a replacement, for humans.fortune.com
Like many things in life, AI only becomes dangerous to humanity when it grows beyond human control. Before AI ever reaches the theoretical threshold of Artificial Superintelligence (ASI), governments, guided by expert recommendations can intervene and halt its development if needed. We have seen this approach before, such as with gene editing, modifying embryos where strict regulations were put in place to prevent the creation of so-called "designer babies" or ethically problematic outcomes similar to Frankenstein or Dracula.
Already you can see the huge car manufacturing Factories, using mostly Machines to Make Cars! So I definitely believe AI will replace most of the Labor Force! But if The Governments really did care about the People, then with the Time and Human labor Saved, they would provide Each and Every Citizen with Everything needed for a Healthy, Happy, Lifestyle, for Free!
harryopal1
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To simply refer to the impact of industrial upheavals as merely periods of adjustment is a bit like using the term "collateral damage" as a means of glossing over civilian deaths during war. Poverty, low wages, long hours, unsafe working conditions and awful living environments were all major features of these periods of "adjustment." The rise of the Luddite movement in the 19th century was not just that they were naughty boys. It was a reflection of the inequities that occur with sudden new technologies replacing workers. Capitalists do not tend to sit down add up the extra profitability created by the new technology and then devise schemes to ensure that the wealth is shared equitably and no one is harmed.
Unrelated subject , in my view .
Although probably governments think about that too , I guess in AI the main reason is that governments don't want to be behind or too far behind others .
You misunderstood , in my view .
In post #5 you showed unemployment data of USA , is it valid for the entire world ?
And in my view , emphasizing recovery of employment few years later is a heartless way to show the consequences of new technologies to workers .
For sure it is not easy to know who is right . So we need to see examples . For example the Indonesian Immigration chatbot (an AI feature) is substituting a human worker .
In my view AI will certainly do good and bad things to humanity .
Governments' intervention comes usually too late .
Like in the global financial crisis of 2007-09 caused by the American issuance of mortgages to subprime borrowers , which was mainly made possible due to a new banking business model by using mortgage-backed securities (MBS) or collateralised debt obligations (CDO) . In addition Moody's, Standard & Poor's, and Fitch gave AAA ratings to the securities , according to : https://scholarship.law.umn.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1084&context=faculty_articles and https://www.economicsobservatory.com/why-did-the-global-financial-crisis-of-2007-09-happen .
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Shadrach
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Wow, all very good points! I agree with Harryopal about the Capitalist not wanting to spread the Wealth amongst all, unfortunately! As I said, AI will replace many, many People's jobs. Which would have many benefits also. Less work related injuries, No need for Union's, more free time for everyone. But the Bosses have to devise ways to share the Wealth to All for Free, or the whole system will collapse, and only a few will become very Wealthy, and most will become very Poor!
Attachments
I mentioned this previously in post #18
"While the statistics referenced are from the U.S., they generally reflect trends seen in other countries as well. In Indonesia for instance, the unemployment rate is fluctuating below 5%. Unemployment typically spikes during periods of recession or depression, but eventually it declines and reverses as the economy recovers." The reason for using U.S. statistics is that they cover an extensive range of years.
So simple search could actually result information about the unemployment figure in Indonesia. This is just few examples.
https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SL.UEM.TOTL.NE.ZS?locations=ID
Like in the United States, the spike in unemployment during the Great Recession was driven by a sharp decline in economic activity that began around 2005 and peaked in 2007. It is less to do with technological advancement. This downturn was triggered by the collapse of the U.S. housing market, which led to a steep drop in the value of mortgage-backed securities (MBS) and related financial derivatives which is less to do with technological advancement. As it is very often the case, what happen to the the world largest economy will effect other nations.
In recent years Indonesia has started investing in cloud and AI infrastructure while also attracting major global companies to invest in its AI sector. These efforts reflect the country's commitment to advancing its technological capabilities. Is the unemployment rate continuing to rise or is it declining?
https://business-indonesia.org/news...ment-interest-early-in-prabowo-administration 8 Global Tech Giants Announce Investment Interest Early in Prabowo Administration
https://www.techinasia.com/news/microsoft-invests-1-6b-to-boost-indonesias-ai-cloud
Like other nations, it is sensible to conclude that the Indonesian government will prioritise food on the table, preventing civil unrest and national insecurity and instability. It would not pursue these investments and initiatives if they believed it would only result in high unemployment, social unrest, people are getting hungry, looting, etc. This is also various coverage to what they have decided.
AI can drive Indonesia's digital economic growth, says official
The development of artificial intelligence (AI) has created opportunities for digital economic growth, according to Deputy Minister of Communication and ...
en.antaranews.com
Indonesia's MSMEs urged to adopt AI for export growth
Minister of Trade Budi Santoso encouraged micro, small, and medium enterprises (MSMEs) to adopt technology, including artificial intelligence (AI), to enhance ...
en.antaranews.com
Typically policy decisions of a country are guided by expert analysis and informed judgment, not by random people writing on the internet.
I have posted opinion from Jensen Huang, the leading figure in AI development. In addition This is also what Sam Altman the CEO of OpenAI are saying:
" ... AI will enable workers to operate “at a higher level of abstraction.” The goal, he suggests, is not to replace jobs entirely but to automate repetitive tasks, enhancing overall efficiency ....."
Other leasing figure in AI development
“AI will not replace humans, but those who use AI will replace those who don’t.” – Ginni Rometty, Former CEO of IBM
"We are entering a world where we will learn to coexist with AI, not as its masters, but as its collaborators.” – Mark Zuckerberg, CEO of Meta
“AI will enhance the ways humans experience the world.” Jeff Bezos, Founder of Amazon
I think there are not many people on this planet would want to believe the opinion from random people on the internet about 'replacing human' if the leading figure such as Sam Altman, Jensen Huang, Mark Zuckeberg, Ginni Romely, Jeff Bezos are saying otherwise. You could also include in this figures, Sundar Pichai, Satya Nadella, Bill Gates. But most of these people warn about if they are uncontrollable, they have developed to become an Artificial Super Intelligence (ASI) where at that point there are already more intelligent than human.
Regarding this statement
What you may be overlooking here is that while some traditional jobs may disappear, but they will be replaced by new roles. This transition requires adaptation, and as Darwin famously theorised, those who fail to adapt might not survive during this transition. But humans are the most adaptable species on this planet.
A good example can be seen in the ride-hailing, ride-sharing, and food/grocery delivery industries. Companies like Gojek, Grab, Gojek's GoFood, GrabFood, Shopee Food have created countless new jobs. In the past, becoming a taxi driver or deliverymen in Jakarta required living in the city for reasonable amount of time to have an in-depth knowledge of Jakarta terrain to be able to navigate around Jakarta. Today, even newcomers from remote villages across Indonesia can work in these roles. What made that possible? What powers these apps behind the scenes? These platforms rely heavily on AI to optimise their operations, navigation, handling other tasks such as ride matching, route optimisation, dynamic pricing, to increase efficiency
Another strong example is the surge of content creators on video-sharing platforms such as YouTube, TikTok, Instagram Reels, and Vimeo including in Indonesia. It may come as a surprise that there are now hundreds of thousands of Indonesian content creators, vloggers active on these major platforms and the number keep increasing. These newly emerging jobs have only become possible due to the advancement of AI-enhanced cloud technology. The Platforms like for instance Vimeo have integrated AI features, including script generators and automated editing tools, to streamline video production. These advancements have lowered barriers to entry, enabling more individuals to pursue careers as content creators
@Balifrog has actually already mentioned it in post #23. I also hinted it in post #3
"But this is not to suggest that they can ignore the need to retrain and adapt their workforce."
Anyway, no Indonesian Immigration workers will lose their jobs, let alone due to technological advancement. They are civil servants. Some argue, the Indonesian civil servant have a job for life. This is not to suggest they can not be made redundant. But this is different subject for discussion.
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harryopal1
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Most governments want to be seen to be encouraging modernity and are often eager to take up new technology if only for that reason alone. I note that going to Ngurah Rai airport it used to be that you entered a gate, got a receipt which you presented to a person at the exit gate and paid the fee. Now one touches a card on entry and touches the card on exit. I wonder what happened to those people who previously took the cash and gave change. Did they receive redundancy packages or get training to assist them into other jobs?
It's possible, but common sense rule they won’t take that route if they believe that adopting new technology would simply lead to high unemployment, social unrest, and deprive ordinary people of their livelihoods. What government or politician would want to risk being overthrown by their own people due to high employment, widespread social unrest?
Indonesian immigration officers at airports along with other officers under ministry of law and human right (Kemenkumham) are civil servants. In Indonesia, civil servants are required to undergo various state-funded training programs. These training sessions have even become business for training providers and the hospitality industry. Recent news this training funding will be reduced due to reallocation to fund free meals for School children.
For the civil servants themselves, participating in training can also be financially beneficial, as they receive travel allowances, per-diems, and other related benefits.
As for what will happen after training, I’m not entirely sure. They may be reassigned or transferred to different roles. However, it’s very unlikely they will be laid off. Some may even be given the opportunity to pursue further education, such as earning a degree or an advanced qualification, while awaiting a new assignment. Alternatively, those not interested in retraining might opt for early retirement. This tends to be the general practice. Civil servant job in Indonesian is a very secure job. As stated before some argue that civil servant job in Indonesia is 'a job for life'. Unlike in other countries, in Indonesia, only the President has the authority to dismiss or make a civil servant redundant.
There are no severance or gratuity payments for civil servants in Indonesia, but they will receive a monthly state pension after retirement for the rest of their life.
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