Indonesia to go Nuclear?

[harryopal1]

So Indonesia is looking to go nuclear with 29 possible power plant sites under consideration. News from ABC this morning.

Concerns over Indonesia's nuclear power plans as 29 sites proposed

One of Australia's closest neighbours proposes 29 locations for nuclear power plants across the archipelago, but critics say the plan is "dangerous".

www.abc.net.au

And this story is accompanied by an update about Chernobyl.

Inside Chernobyl is a toxic world where frogs have turned black

Nuclear meltdown in 1986 reshaped ecosystems and human lives. Four decades on the legacy of the Chernobyl disaster is still unfolding.

www.abc.net.au

I wonder if the idea is floating around about then acquiring nuclear weapons?

 

[Wisnu]

It's not something new. In fact we are always omon-omon for more than 5 decades
My thesis in 1986 is entitled Levelized Generation Cost for the first Nuclear Power plant in Indonesia, based on construction cost from Bechtel Cor at Jepara site central Java. I did look the Candu planf design too.
There was another plant to built nuclear plant to produce steam to inject heavy crude oil in Sumatra, instead of burning natural gas.
Indeed, there lot of discussion in our alumni WAG, but many still skeptical.
not sure i'll be alive when the first nuclear power plant is operational.

 

[ChrisOnBali]

not sure i'll be alive when the first nuclear power plant is operational.

..or indeed, for very long after it's operational

Seriously though, surely solar and local energy storage is the bleedin' obvious answer to the power supply here, and anywhere with such a huge abundance of sunshine.

The nuclear option means investing untold trillions in (29????) massive infrastructure projects that could each go about as horribly wrong as anything in the world possibly can, with all the long term cleaning up / decommissioning even if everything goes well, plus dependence on technology and expertise from abroad.

Alternatively, government funding for (and perhaps legislation to insist on) new builds and existing houses having solar panels fitted would perhaps not entirely replace, but at least severely reduce dependence on the mains supply would be a much, much better way to spend the money, even if it cost more than 29 nuclear plants... hard to imagine that it could, especially taking decommissioning etc into account, but either way really.

Fitting, aligning and attaching to the house supply isn't so tricky, anyone who can use a ladder and a spanner can be trained to do all that, lots of long-term jobs for huge numbers of local folk instead of a comparative handful of jobs for foreign engineers and nuclear technicians.

Obviously it'd not be a simple process to solar-up vast numbers of houses but surely no more complicated (and certainly vastly less dangerous) than plonking nuclear power plants here and there and would need a whole shitload fewer cables draped between buildings.

Of course, providing cheap, reliable power to the population without endangering them unreasonably may well not be the main driver behind this, but it bloody well ought to be.

I'm sure the usual suspects could still manage to fill their back pockets with brown envelopes just as well with the alternative solution, obviously nobody would want to deny these deserving folk of the special benefits they wring out of every big splurge of money on public projects.

 

[harryopal1]

..or indeed, for very long after it's operational

Seriously though, surely solar and local energy storage is the bleedin' obvious answer to the power supply here, and anywhere with such a huge abundance of sunshine.

The nuclear option means investing untold trillions in (29????) massive infrastructure projects that could each go about as horribly wrong as anything in the world possibly can, with all the long term cleaning up / decommissioning even if everything goes well, plus dependence on technology and expertise from abroad.

Alternatively, funding for (and perhaps legislation to insist on) new builds and existing houses having solar panels fitted would perhaps not entirely replace, but at least severely reduce dependence on the mains supply would be a much, much better way to spend the money.

Fitting, aligning and attaching to the house supply isn't so tricky, anyone who can use a ladder and a spanner can be trained to do all that.

Obviously it'd not be a simple process to solar-up vast numbers of houses but surely no more complicated (and certainly vastly less dangerous) than plonking nuclear power plants here and there and would need a whole shitload fewer cables draped between buildings.

Of course, providing a reliable power supply to the population without endangering them unreasonably may well not be the main driver behind this, but it bloody well ought to be.

I'm sure the usual suspects could still manage to fill their back pockets with brown envelopes just as well with the alternative solution, obviously nobody would want to deny these deserving folk of the special benefits they wring out of every big splurge of money on public projects.

Solar may look to be the obvious way to go but the big drawing power is the mouth watering amounts of money involved when it comes to building nuclear power plants. When you personally stand to make several millions dollars in facilitation fees or as a percentage of a tender then so easy to regard warnings of the dangers of nuclear power plant accidents as just fear mongering and then of course there will be the new "fail safe technology" not to mention enriched uranium to move to nuclear weaponry and true Indonesian independence

 

[ChrisOnBali]

Yep, clearly government projects large and small generally go ahead on the basis of who will make a shitload of commission on it, who's brother's company gets to supply the materials, who's cousin owns the land it'll be build on, who gets to sell, sorry, issue the licenses etc. rather than the public good.

Perhaps it's a touch more brazen here than in the West, but same same everywhere I guess.

 

[jstar]

It's not something new. In fact we are always omon-omon for more than 5 decades
My thesis in 1986 is entitled Levelized Generation Cost for the first Nuclear Power plant in Indonesia, based on construction cost from Bechtel Cor at Jepara site central Java. I did look the Candu planf design too.
There was another plant to built nuclear plant to produce steam to inject heavy crude oil in Sumatra, instead of burning natural gas.
Indeed, there lot of discussion in our alumni WAG, but many still skeptical.
not sure i'll be alive when the first nuclear power plant is operational.

Do they still operate the three research plants?

 

[Wisnu]

Do they still operate the three research plants?

I believe so, though I am not 100% sure, as intermittent problems might happen on these very old reactors.

 

[jstar]

In the mean time Belgium is nationalizing its 7 nuclear reactors and has gone completely the opposite direction of 20 years ago when they sold them to Engie (+Electrabel) and had a plan to dismantle all of them this decade.

 

[Balifrog]

In the mean time Belgium is nationalizing its 7 nuclear reactors and has gone completely the opposite direction of 20 years ago when they sold them to Engie (+Electrabel) and had a plan to dismantle all of them this decade.

I can remember my young sister 50 years ago going to the anti nuclear parades and demos in Belgium (they lived there). And my brother being a "gendarme" going also, but on the other side....with helmet and baton !
How ridiculous it was them anti nuclear demos.
Take Germany...closed its nuclear plants 10 years ago to please the greens. Then in 2022 restart their coal plants...

 

[pantaiema]

I can remember my young sister 50 years ago going to the anti nuclear parades and demos in Belgium (they lived there). And my brother being a "gendarme" going also, but on the other side....with helmet and baton !
How ridiculous it was them anti nuclear demos.
Take Germany...closed its nuclear plants 10 years ago to please the greens. Then in 2022 restart their coal plants...

Similar to the UK, but might be on different route. Currently the UK relies a fractional part of its electricity imports on France during periods of high demand. France has a surplus of electricity as it generates a large share of its power from nuclear energy.

Modern data centres require enormous amounts of electricity, not only to power processors but also for cooling systems. With the rapid growth of AI and large-scale data infrastructure, electricity demand is expected to rise significantly.

Nuclear power as one of the few reliable low-carbon options capable of providing large amounts of continuous electricity. Now the UK government want to quadruple nuclear generating capacity to 24 GW by 2050, with the aim of supplying around 25% of the country’s projected electricity demand.

 

[harryopal1]

News today that nuclear power plant construction times in Finland have blown out along with huge increases in cost estimates.Flamanville 3’s estimated cost ballooned from €3.3 billion to €23.7 billion, with the timeline extending from 5 to 17 years. Hinkley Point C, still under construction, is now projected to cost around €55 billion, more than double initial estimates (not adjusted for inflation).

Apart from costs it just seems incredibly fatalistic to still consider building nuclear reactors in Indonesia given its location regarding the rim of fire with quite unpredictable earthquakes and tremors.

 

[Balifrog]

regarding the rim of fire with quite unpredictable earthquakes and tremors.

Japan has plenty eartquakes, and 33 nuclear powerplants.

"Japan currently has 33 operable nuclear power reactors, but only about 14 are actively generating power. Following the 2011 Fukushima disaster, all reactors were temporarily shut down. Since then, facilities have undergone strict safety reviews to gradually resume operations."

Current Nuclear Fleet Breakdown

• Operable: 33 reactors
• Currently Active/Restarted: 14 reactors
• Suspended/Awaiting Approval: 19 reactors
• Under Construction: 2 reactors (Shimane 3 and Ohma 1)
• Decommissioned: 24 reactors have been permanently shut down or are in the process of decommissioning

 

[jstar]

Are we seriously comparing Finland, the UK and Japan with the RI now?

 

[Balifrog]

Are we seriously comparing Finland, the UK and Japan with the RI now?

Good point !

 

[harryopal1]

I posted the Finland information which is not untypical of what happens with the construction of nuclear reactors with long delays and huge blow outs in cost. The initial costs estimates with such proposals look terrific when the new, nice and shiny details are put out there but the actual cost realities usually turn out very differently.

 

[Hawk256]

I posted the Finland information which is not untypical of what happens with the construction of nuclear reactors with long delays and huge blow outs in cost. The initial costs estimates with such proposals look terrific when the new, nice and shiny details are put out there but the actual cost realities usually turn out very differently.

That seems to happen with any government project though. Not limited to anything specific.

 

[Balifrog]

I posted the Finland information which is not untypical of what happens with the construction of nuclear reactors with long delays and huge blow outs in cost. The initial costs estimates with such proposals look terrific when the new, nice and shiny details are put out there but the actual cost realities usually turn out very differently.

The Finland EPR plant is a real saga...

Go directly to UNIT 3 :

Olkiluoto Nuclear Power Plant - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

A perfect example where everything went wrong.