How to determine if a neighbor is stealing electricity?

[Pak Tani]

If I understand correctly, we will upgrade the fuse to a higher amp rating but the same wattage.

If the wattage of your 3,500 kWh PLN connection is sufficient for your household, and an MCB with a higher value is still installed, this probably indicates a problem with your mains voltage. This bigger MCB is a workaround from PLN that is easier to implement than the necessary upgrade of the electricity grid.
I recommend measuring your mains voltage. Do this several times a day to get a better picture. You can easily do this yourself if you have a prepaid meter. Press 41 and <enter> on the meter, and it will show the real-time mains voltage value. This should be around 220V. If the voltage is very low, it can be harmful to your household appliances, and you may consider a voltage stabilizer in this case.

 

[Anfooshi]

So what were the "visible wires ... To our roof area"?

PLN does not enter the home. I brought up the possibility with them and they dismissed it saying it would trip the internal circuits/ fuses, not the outside unit. Which is inaccurate.

But, if I assume no one is stealing, then these wires are the same as the mess of wires across the region that will be run in anyway anyhow method. Lots of copper. Same with the internet cabling, too. It's just everywhere.

I will run my own test using the key pad code and, as suggested here, turn everything off while observing the meter data post code entry.

 

[John indonesia]

Please do not suggest that people just cut a cable they know nothing about. Dangerous in so many ways.

True, but he can cut the power at night. If the neighbour's lights go out, he has his answer.

 

[Hawk256]

True, but he can cut the power at night. If the neighbour's lights go out, he has his answer.

Turning off the power and cutting a cable aren't the same thing. You can turn off the power at anytime and see what happens. But physically cutting a cable that you know nothing about is a different story.

 

[John indonesia]

Turning off the power and cutting a cable aren't the same thing. You can turn off the power at anytime and see what happens. But physically cutting a cable that you know nothing about is a different story.

True. That is the reason I suggested cutting the power, not the cable.

 

[Hawk256]

True. That is the reason I suggested cutting the power, not the cable.

I follow you but someone that may not speak English as a first language could get confused by the cutting part and take it literally.

 

[nd_eric_77]

I follow you but someone that may not speak English as a first language could get confused by the cutting part and take it literally.

So, to paraphrase:
1. Wait until about 8:00 PM.
2. Make sure everybody in your house is aware of what you plan to do.
3. Turn off the main circuit breaker to your house.
4. Do the neighbor's lights go out? If so, I would be tempted to just leave the power off until someone complains.
5. If the neighbor is stealing electricity upstream of the main breaker, it should not affect you because the meter only measures what goes through the main breaker.

 

[pantaiema]

So, to paraphrase:
1. Wait until about 8:00 PM.
2. Make sure everybody in your house is aware of what you plan to do.
3. Turn off the main circuit breaker to your house.
4. Do the neighbor's lights go out? If so, I would be tempted to just leave the power off until someone complains.
5. If the neighbor is stealing electricity upstream of the main breaker, it should not affect you because the meter only measures what goes through the main breaker.

This is the simplest and most effective approach, as the OP doesn’t have to rely on anyone else to understand the situation. By carrying out the check himself, he can draw a clear and confident conclusion about what’s really happening.
Just to add to post #77

• Make visual observation to make sure you get the correct size of breaker installed by PLN in your installation. In your case of 3,500W power contract you should get 16A breaker installed. If lower than this, this is probably the main cause your main breaker keep tripping. In this case you need to ask PLN to install the right size breaker. e.g what you have paid for. This is their responsibility.
• You could also observe the PLN meter after you turn off the main breaker in the evening, your electricity meter should not be changing/moving as you are using zero electricity

Personally, I find it very unlikely that anyone sensible is stealing electricity from the OP, and here’s my thought:

• The OP’s electricity contract with PLN allows for only 3,500 watts, a relatively small amount, not worth the trouble of stealing.
• If someone were stealing power from the OP (rather than directly from PLN), the total load current would still be detected by the main breaker. For example, if the neigbour took half, the OP would only be able to use around 1,750 watts before the main breaker tripped.
• If the neighbor truly intended to steal electricity from the OP’s house, the connection would have to be made before the OP moved in to make it unnoticed, since the connection must be established after the main breaker inside the OP house.
• And if the thief has any sense, he’d target the power company (PLN) instead, since that would allow access to a much larger amount of electricity
• Typically, people who steal electricity do so on an industrial scale to make it worthwhile. For examples factories, small manufacturing businesses, home industries, etc. The typical case of electricity stealing in other countries in residential area is the illegal cannabis home growers for cannabis grown inside an ordinary residence which require a large amount of electricity for lighting and mechanical ventilation

In the real world everything could happen even with low probability, but a definitive answer, need to be found. I encourage the op to try the method in post #27 and please let us know the outcome so we could all learn from this case.

 

[Shadrach]

This is the simplest and most effective approach, as the OP doesn’t have to rely on anyone else to understand the situation. By carrying out the check himself, he can draw a clear and confident conclusion about what’s really happening. Just to add this, make visual observation to make sure you get the correct size of breaker installed by PLN in your installation. In your case of 3,500W power contract you should get 16A breaker installed. If lower than this, this is probably the main cause your main breaker keep tripping. In this case you need to ask PLN to install the right size breaker. e.g what you have paid for. This is their responsibility.

Personally, I find it very unlikely that anyone sensible is stealing electricity from the OP, and here’s my thought:

• The OP’s electricity contract with PLN allows for only 3,500 watts, a relatively small amount, not worth the trouble of stealing.
• If someone were stealing power from the OP (rather than directly from PLN), the total load current would still be detected by the main breaker. For example, if the neigbour took half, the OP would only be able to use around 1,750 watts before the main breaker tripped.
• If the neighbor truly intended to steal electricity from the OP’s house, the connection would have to be made before the OP moved in to make it unnoticed, since the connection must be established after the main breaker inside the OP house.
• And if the thief has any sense, he’d target the power company (PLN) instead, since that would allow access to a much larger amount of electricity
• Typically, people who steal electricity do so on an industrial scale to make it worthwhile. For examples factories, small manufacturing businesses, home industries, etc. The typical case of electricity stealing in other countries in residential area is the illegal cannabis home growers for cannabis grown inside an ordinary residence which require a large amount of electricity for lighting and mechanical ventilation

In the real world everything could happen even with low probability, but a definitive answer, need to be found. I encourage the op to try the method in post #27 and please let us know the outcome so we could all learn from this case.

I also want to see the outcome of the OP shutting off the juice, and seeing if the neighbor's lights go out? As to the stealing power in The US, for growing Cannabis. It's not worth it even to grow with stolen power. The Governments Private Mafia grows all the Weed now, and has lowered the price so much, because they grow it on a massive scale, that small Farmers can't make a profit. No one saw this coming with the Legalization of Cannabis. Everyone was just thinking of no more fear with problems with the Police, and court systems, that they didn't see the Government create an unaffordable high cost of permits to grow!
It's the same as large corporations and malls, taking over all the businesses from Mom, and Pop small family stores, that had been run by the Families for generations! Sad!

 

[Hawk256]

I also want to see the outcome of the OP shutting off the juice, and seeing if the neighbor's lights go out? As to the stealing power in The US, for growing Cannabis. It's not worth it even to grow with stolen power. The Governments Private Mafia grows all the Weed now, and has lowered the price so much, because they grow it on a massive scale, that small Farmers can't make a profit. No one saw this coming with the Legalization of Cannabis. Everyone was just thinking of no more fear with problems with the Police, and court systems, that they didn't see the Government create an unaffordable high cost of permits to grow!
It's the same as large corporations and malls, taking over all the businesses from Mom, and Pop small family stores, that had been run by the Families for generations! Sad!

All you are asked to do is stay on topic but you just can't do it can you?

 

[Shadrach]

All you are asked to do is stay on topic but you just can't do it can you?

If you look at the former post. The poster brought up the use of stolen electricity for indoor Cannabis growing! I just explained that is not happening anymore, due to Corporate and Mafia style entities haven taken over the Enterprise. I was on topic! I began by saying that, I also was curious about the outcome if they shut off their main circuit breaker, to see if the neighbor's lights went out too?

 

[John indonesia]

For example, if the neigbour took half, the OP would only be able to use around 1,750 watts before the main breaker tripped.

This relies on the assumption of a 50/50 split, but that's unlikely.
If someone is stealing power, it's likely they don't have much spare money, and that means there's a good chance they don't have high power items such as an air conditioner.
A far smaller current draw would increase the bill by some, but not be enough to trip the system.
The odd part of this is the stray cable that was mentioned earlier.
I would suggest, if turning off the power kills the neighbour's lights, contact PLN and ask them to check things out. I would imagine they would take a dim view of electricity theft.

 

[Hawk256]

a dim view of electricity theft.

Great pun there. You are so enlightened. I am a little shocked.

 

[pantaiema]

This relies on the assumption of a 50/50 split, but that's unlikely.
If someone is stealing power, it's likely they don't have much spare money, and that means there's a good chance they don't have high power items such as an air conditioner.
A far smaller current draw would increase the bill by some, but not be enough to trip the system.
The odd part of this is the stray cable that was mentioned earlier.

Fifty fifty split is just an example.

As mentioned earlier, if the neighbor really intended to steal electricity from the OP's house, the connection would have to be made after the main breaker, inside the OP's house. If the tap-in happens before the meter, then the neighbor is actually stealing power from PLN, so not from the op.

Tapping into the electrical installation inside the OP’s house (after the meter) especially while the OP or their family is living there would be very difficult to do without being noticed by the OP or other family members.

Another thing here is that the risk of getting electric shock with live electricity while the main breaker is still on. Anyone with common sense and understand electricity will be thinking twice before attempting such a risky act especially for such a tiny gain.

And just to give an idea 3,500w power contract is actually not big, especially for an expat who get used to western lifestyle. One electric kettle will typically draw between 1.5-3kW. Typically electric kettle is an essential home appliance for an expat to make tea, coffee, hot chocolate, etc at any time without the need to wait. One window units of AC will typically take between 0.9-1.5kW. So how much left ??

I would suggest, if turning off the power kills the neighbour's lights, contact PLN and ask them to check things out. I would imagine they would take a dim view of electricity theft.

Regarding contacting PLN for electricity theft inside the OP house (e.g , after the main meter ) is not the PLN business, as the installation after the meter is the the owner's responsibility.

 

[Anfooshi]

Update:

A fuse that powers all the electrical outlet upstairs, except the laundry room, stopped working. The fuse did not trip, it just stopped working.

I think this may have been related to the issue I described.

 

[Wisnu]

do you mean group MCB? MCB is different than fuse. it just could be bad MCB or poor installation. I believe your case is not a theft. more likely your roof is used as a hop for your neighbor cable instead of direct cabling from the road pole which is common in dense area

 

[Anfooshi]

do you mean group MCB? MCB is different than fuse. it just could be bad MCB or poor installation. I believe your case is not a theft. more likely your roof is used as a hop for your neighbor cable instead of direct cabling from the road pole which is common in dense area

Internal upstairs fuse. 1fuse from a group of fuses went bad.

I agree. I no longer think theft is or was an issue.

 

[Pak Tani]

 

[harryopal1]

View attachment 5308

That's a quick solution to stop fuses tripping but only until you get a good electrian to find the root of the problem. The whole point of a fuse tripping is to prevent a short circuit causing a fire. Plenty of listrik problems causing fires around Indonesia.

 

[Hawk256]

That's a quick solution to stop fuses tripping but only until you get a good electrian to find the root of the problem. The whole point of a fuse tripping is to prevent a short circuit causing a fire. Plenty of listrik problems causing fires around Indonesia.

I have some scary electrical things in my few years in Indonesia. Actually a little surprised it doesn't happen even more often.