Hi everyone

[Vlerkprauw]

Hello there, I am new to the forum and thought I'd introduce myself!

I'm Dutch and currently live in the Netherlands, and I've been having a long-distance relationship for many years with my girlfriend who's Indonesian and lives in Jakarta (we met in the Netherlands studying the same Master's programme in Leiden University).

My plan is to move to Indonesia in 2022 and live together with my girlfriend in an apartment in Jakarta. For reasons I won't get into here, marriage is not an option for us. My plan for migrating is therefore to find a job at a company located in Jakarta and acquire an IMTA / ITAS, and enter the country on a VITAS visa. This means an online job search, as visit visa (sosbud) are not given out currently because of the Covid situation (there's conflicting information about this online).

I am working in software development and there are a lot of job opportunities in that field of work, on the other hand I know about the Indo government discouraging companies to hire foreigners with the regulations and the monthly fee and all, so it's not clear to me at the moment how challenging this will prove to be.

I've been to Jakarta several times so I know what the city is like, although I don't know what it's like to live and work there.

Anyway, this forum looks super useful and I'll be browsing existing threads first for answers to my questions, and post my own questions if I still have them.

In the meantime if any of you already have some tips or warnings for me, that would be very welcome!

Best wishes for the new year to everyone.

 

[atlantis]

Hello and warm welcome to both the Forum and Indonesia (in a few months). I live far From Jakarta in the Eastern part of Indonesia and wouldn't be of much help concerning your future city of adoption. Sorry.
I settled here over 2 decades ago after first having repeatedly visited Indonesia and South East Asia in the 90's

 

[Lemonyellow]

Hello and welcome to the forum as well. I too live far away from Jakarta, in Riau to be precise. Been living here almost five years with my wife and currently on my 1st ITAP. Good luck with your plan

 

[fastpitch17]

Welcome. Sorry, I do not live in Jakarta and never plan to. Good luck with your plans. Not going to be a smooth road but is navigable. I have been here close to 10 years and now have a permanent KITAP.

You may find that many Expats who live in Jakarta do so because they have no choice for primarily work related reasons.

 

[Puspawarna]

I lived in Jakarta for 17 years between 1993 and 2018. If you are patient, inquisitive, have a lot of good things going on in your life (happy family, fulfilling work, hobbies you can indulge), don't need tons and tons of hanging out with friends to be content, and "rich," it can be a good place to live.

By "rich" I don't mean extremely wealthy by Western definitions, but in order to have a bearable lifestyle you need to have enough money to pay others to take care of a lot of things most ordinary Westerners are used to handling themselves.

The problem with Jakarta is that it is SO congested now that it really takes a huge amount of time just to get from point A to point B. That's where staff come in: if you can afford a driver, maid, etc. to take you places, pay your bills, grocery shop, wash your dishes, and so on, you'll have a little time available for your own interests, hopefully, when you aren't at work, handling chores, or sitting in a car trying to get somewhere. (Of course I left Indonesia just as the subway system was being completed - I don't know if things are significantly better now. Maybe someone with more current experience can comment. But somehow I doubt the subway has been a game changer.)

Anyway, by the time I left it was really hard to spend time with friends just because of the logistics. I was a member of a bookclub that had been meeting since the 1990s. It used to be a fun, easily scheduled evening; by the time I left, about every other get-together was a disaster because by 9 or 10pm many of the group were still stuck in traffic trying to make a 7pm dinner. They'd give up and go home a lot of the time.

Of course you can take steps to minimize the pain: live close to your job, for one thing (it helps not to have kids in school to worry about). And live somewhere you enjoy. If your apartment has amenities like a pool and a gym, that'll help keep you sane. Even better if by some miracle you can make friends in the building. Another option if you are daring enough is to have a motorbike, which can cut travel times substantially. I wouldn't do it, but most of my reasons would not apply to you. But keep in mind that Indonesia has a TERRIBLE record of road crashes, and it's motorbike riders and pedestrians that are most likely to be injured or killed.

I could go on and on, but that'll do for starters. Happy to elaborate and expand as you get closer to carrying out your plans.

 

[Balifrog]

I lived in Jakarta for 17 years between 1993 and 2018. If you are patient, inquisitive, have a lot of good things going on in your life (happy family, fulfilling work, hobbies you can indulge), don't need tons and tons of hanging out with friends to be content, and "rich," it can be a good place to live.

By "rich" I don't mean extremely wealthy by Western definitions, but in order to have a bearable lifestyle you need to have enough money to pay others to take care of a lot of things most ordinary Westerners are used to handling themselves.

The problem with Jakarta is that it is SO congested now that it really takes a huge amount of time just to get from point A to point B. That's where staff come in: if you can afford a driver, maid, etc. to take you places, pay your bills, grocery shop, wash your dishes, and so on, you'll have a little time available for your own interests, hopefully, when you aren't at work, handling chores, or sitting in a car trying to get somewhere. (Of course I left Indonesia just as the subway system was being completed - I don't know if things are significantly better now. Maybe someone with more current experience can comment. But somehow I doubt the subway has been a game changer.)

Anyway, by the time I left it was really hard to spend time with friends just because of the logistics. I was a member of a bookclub that had been meeting since the 1990s. It used to be a fun, easily scheduled evening; by the time I left, about every other get-together was a disaster because by 9 or 10pm many of the group were still stuck in traffic trying to make a 7pm dinner. They'd give up and go home a lot of the time.

Of course you can take steps to minimize the pain: live close to your job, for one thing (it helps not to have kids in school to worry about). And live somewhere you enjoy. If your apartment has amenities like a pool and a gym, that'll help keep you sane. Even better if by some miracle you can make friends in the building. Another option if you are daring enough is to have a motorbike, which can cut travel times substantially. I wouldn't do it, but most of my reasons would not apply to you. But keep in mind that Indonesia has a TERRIBLE record of road crashes, and it's motorbike riders and pedestrians that are most likely to be injured or killed.

I could go on and on, but that'll do for starters. Happy to elaborate and expand as you get closer to carrying out your plans.

Sorry, but where is the "Quality of life" in all that.

I lived / worked in big cities. Some fun and interesting (Paris, London, HCMC,Busan, BKK), some I only stayed because of the job and the very good money (SGP, HKG, Cairo, Dubai....)
The OP is young, so he will manage. Till one day he realizes that quality of life becomes important.

Had drivers, maids, baby sitters, company cars, commany flats, girlfriends, mistresses....
Enjoy it all, but dont forget to bail out before it kills you.

Living like a good old pensioner nowadays.

Never been.to Jakarta, but had a short.stay in Surabaya...... Forget it !

 

[Puspawarna]

Sorry, but where is the "Quality of life" in all that.

I didn't answer your question in my post; I figured I'd gone on long enough as it was.

But since you ask: whether or not you can achieve quality of life in Jakarta depends on who you are and what makes you happy (also, I think money is an issue for everybody. Poverty anywhere is no good, but to be poor in Jakarta has got to be a special kind of hell).

For me, quality-of-life benefits of Jakarta included the fact I could have a meaningful professional job that I hope contributed to making the world just a slightly better place. I held a number of different jobs while I was there, but as one example, I spent 7 years on an infrastructure policy and finance project - a partnership between the Australian and Indonesian governments that among other things worked to bring water and sewer systems to people, improve roads, and increase aviation safety. That was extremely rewarding. Jobs like that, using my particular skill set, would not be available outside the capital.

Second, while the high population density and resultant traffic is a net negative, it also made street life incredibly rich and varied. In a small town, a walk down the street would quickly grow repetitive. In Jakarta, it was never the same experience twice - so many people, so much color, always something happening.

Third, while medical care overall in Indonesia is less than it ought to be, I'm pretty sure it's better in Jakarta than in more remote areas.

Fourth, if you like to travel, CGK is a pretty good hub. From there it's just a quick plane ride to Singapore or Bali, and it will be faster to get back to London or Amsterdam or wherever if you are an expat that wants to go home to see family.

Fifth, the international community was vibrant. I've been told that Americans have a reputation (probably well deserved) for only hanging out with other Americans, but that certainly doesn't describe me, and I had friends from all over the world. That bookclub I mentioned usually had members of 4-6 nationalities at any given time, which was fantastic in terms of getting different perspectives.

Related to #5, since cities do tend to be more cosmopolitan, I suspect it's easier to socialize with Indonesians, at least until you become more integrated, in a big city. There will probably be many more educated, English-speaking locals that you can interact with. Life in a small village might ultimately lead to more in-depth relationships, but at least in a big city there will be plenty of Indonesians who you can talk to about meaningful things before you become a competent Indonesian speaker.

Last item for now - depending on your hobbies, you might be able to pursue them better in a big city like Jakarta. Me, I love to eat (and Jakarta has a huge variety of restaurants) and cook. Moreover, I am a "cuisine slut," by which I mean if I see something unfamiliar to me in the store I'll buy it and try it. In Jakarta the groceries cater to Japanese, Indians, Europeans, etc., so I frequently saw foods I hadn't tried before. That was so much fun. In a rural area, the grocery selection would be far less varied.

So there you go - Despite the undeniable drawbacks of the city, I was able to create a very satisfying quality of life in Jakarta, utilizing aspects of the city that wouldn't be available in the sticks.

Obviously, a lot of it depends on the person. Some people will always be miserable in a city no matter what, quite justifiably bemoaning the congestion and lack of nature. Others will always be miserable in a village, legitimately bemoaning the lack of sophistication and culture.

There's no right or wrong answer - some people need certain things in their life to be happy, end of story, and that's fine. Others are more adaptable and can seize upon the positive aspects of a vibrant city or a sleepy hamlet. What's important is that you know which kind of person you are, and make life choices accordingly.

 

[Balifrog]

@Puspawarna ,
Quite a long answer.... not bad at all.
Give me some time to answer ?

Happy New Year.

 

[Puspawarna]

Give me some time to answer ?

Sure! No rush. Your thoughts any time will be interesting. And Happy New Year!

 

[Nimbus]

Good answer Puspa.

The Jakarta of today is most certainly not the city I grew up in, but given the choice I’d probably still live there if I return to Indonesia. Everything is familiar yet foreign to me at the same time, and it’s interesting and frustrating in equal measure. Some old crap never change, yet others have been transformed beyond recognition. The term “Big Durian” wasn’t coined yet when I left, but it is an apt name. You either love it or hate it, and sometimes you do both.

 

[Vlerkprauw]

Thanks for the welcome everyone, and it's very interesting for me to read experiences of other Jakarta expats. So thanks especially to Puspawarna for the extensive thoughts.

I am of course aware that Jakarta is not exactly heaven on earth (as I mentioned in my OP I've been there several times, probably adding up to a total of 3 months or so), and I'd also heard that it's impopular among expats for that reason. For me, being with my girlfriend is the important objective, and I don't think I would ever consider moving to a city like Jakarta otherwise. She has a good job there and her family that she's partly responsible for taking care of, so that's the main reason that for the near future we'll be staying in Jakarta. No plans for the long term really, but we're not planning to spend the rest of our lives there.

That being said, of course the quality of life is important as you should be happy in your life in more respects than just your relationship. I make electronic music so I have a fulfilling 'hobby' that I can do in my apartment, and I'm not someone who constantly needs to meet up with people and socialize. I love Indonesian (street) food. I have a large amount of savings so, assuming I find a reasonably good job, money won't be an issue for the coming years. So I don't see a lot of red lights there.

I think the way I feel about Jakarta seems somewhat similar to what Nimbus describes: in one sense it's terrible, in another sense the size and intensity of everything is kind of fascinating.

Finally, the traffic is flagged by Puspawarna as the main issue. That might be true. I'm not really planning to drive a car or motorbike myself. I'm a bit surprised you don't mention relatively new services like Gojek / Grab, in my limited experience they seem to offer the most flexibility and speed (not comfortable for long distances of course). Most important thing for me to remember: make sure the location where I work is not too far from the location where I live. Since we also want to live not too far from my girlfriend's family, that means I'm limited in my job search to offices in a certain region...

 

[Helpful Herbert]

Traffic is bad at certain times, but driving around Jakarta is great. Always something interesting or weird to see. I've even grown to enjoy giving 1000rp to the tukang parkir who direct traffic at U-turns, or at least deciding when they deserve it or not. My tip would be get a car and drive yourself around, don't get a driver (which can get complicated).

 

[El_Goretto]

While yes, go-jek/grab are convenient, riding on the back of a motorbike taxi in Jakarta is quite, how should I say, the experience for someone who is not used to it. Hope your heart is strong! Also, all practicality goes out the window if it starts raining hard.

One other option is to live outside of Jakarta in one of the new developments. Personally, I live in the BSD area and wouldn't live anywhere else in Jakarta (unless on a big fat expat package that pays for a roomy apartment in SCBD or Kuningan area).

Advantages are:
1. Almost no traffic
2. Roomy and modern roads
3. A lot greener
4. All amenities (malls, cinemas, outdoor activities, good western food, bars/pubs/clubs, plenty of space for cycling)
5. Both houses and apartments available: the monthly rent for a 1BR 35m2 apartment in Jakarta gets you a nice 100 to 200m2 house in a secure complex in BSD)
6. Easy access to Jakarta via toll, commuter train line, commuter bus line
7. Easy access to the airport
8. The fastest and most reliable internet available in Indonesia (I currently am on 100Mbps fiber optic with fixed IP address for under IDR 500K/month which works all the time)

Cons:
1. If you or your GF work in Jakarta, commuting can be difficult. When I used to work in Kuningan area, I spent 1 hour in the morning and 2 hours in the evening commuting by car. By train, it would be 1h each way but that includes a 20mn gojek ride which is a no-no during rain. But if you or your GF get a job near one of the train stations or can somehow connect with MRT, it's definitely worth it.
2. While BSD is awesome and getting better by the month (literally), it still will never be as complete as Jakarta. So if you're into the big clubbing scene or expat gatherings (although there are plenty of expats here), it's a bit further, that's all.

Bonus point: a lot of these new digital companies are opening offices in BSD in this new digital park. This also includes AWS and an Apple Research Center, so as a software developer, you might find some good opportunities there soon.

2nd bonus point: all of the cons above are moot if you and your GF can work remotely.

Anyway, if you decide to come check out my neck of the wood, hit me up by PM and I'll be happy to show you around!

 

[harryopal1]

And then there is the matter of simply breathing. As you probably have read, a group of residents recently won a court case against the government over the matter of air pollution

IN FOCUS: The ongoing struggle to reduce air pollution in Jakarta and why the problem has persisted

Jakarta’s poor air quality prompted a group of residents to sue the government and they won. CNA explores the root causes and impacts of the smog which regularly blankets the city.

www.channelnewsasia.com

"... Andy Rahman last rode his bicycle on the streets of Jakarta, a hobby he picked up last year when non-essential workers like himself were told to work from home to curb the spread of COVID-19.

“After about 30 minutes, my eyes were burning, my throat hurt and I began to cough,” the 47-year-old marketing manager told CNA.

The coughing would persist even after he got home. It would only go away after he remained indoors for hours, he said.

Rahman noticed that whenever he went cycling, the air would smell like there was something burning. Visibility was sometimes so low that tall skyscrapers appeared as mere silhouettes against a greyish sky.

This led him to suspect that his coughing had to do with the worsening air quality.

According to air quality monitoring tools, the city of 11 million people consistently ranks as one of the most polluted cities in the world.

Data from the Jakarta Health Agency shows that in 2019, before the pandemic began, the city only had two days when the air quality was deemed “healthy”. The rest of the year, the city was blanketed with toxic fumes and fine dust particles from vehicles, factories and coal-fired power plants surrounding the capital."

As with cigarette smoking, perhaps just one more cigarette won't make much difference but with every breath you take you are shaving moments from your longevity.

 

[Nimbus]

Like most Jakartans, I try my best to avoid the outdoors in the city. That’s what Puncak is for.

 

[cestpasmyjob]

Obviously, searching remotely for a job in Indonesia is not going to be easy. Normally, I would advise joining a multinational with operations in Indonesia, and lobbying for a transfer. Not sure if that would work with software development. Note many of the big tech firms in Indonesia do a lot of their development in India, because that's where the s/ware engineers are...

 

[harryopal1]

...... Note many of the big tech firms in Indonesia do a lot of their development in India, because that's where the s/ware engineers are...

And lower wages.

 

[Vlerkprauw]

Obviously, searching remotely for a job in Indonesia is not going to be easy. Normally, I would advise joining a multinational with operations in Indonesia, and lobbying for a transfer. Not sure if that would work with software development. Note many of the big tech firms in Indonesia do a lot of their development in India, because that's where the s/ware engineers are...

Hm, really? It's not like the wages for local workers are very high.
I guess I will have to focus on what I have to offer that is hard(er) to find in local software developers or outsourced workers in India. Many years of experience, being able to take on a more 'managerial' role, a very structured approach, and I've heard that communication with outsourced workers far away can be difficult sometimes...

 

[jukung11]

My plan for migrating is therefore to find a job at a company located in Jakarta and acquire an IMTA / ITAS, and enter the country on a VITAS visa. This means an online job search, as visit visa (sosbud) are not given out currently because of the Covid situation (there's conflicting information about this online).

The majority of work permits (70%) are employed by foreign companies that do business in Indonesia hiring middle managment and workers that understand their company or speak the language of their home country.

Another good job search will be with Dutch companies that do business in Indonesia, the Dutch embassy, or NGOs that serve in Indonesia. See if you can turn some of your management experiance into a different organization.