HELP!: School forced EPO thru Imigrasi this week.

[scouser59]

thanks for the follow up , did you exit and return to indo for the proceedings ? so you have no overstay financial pressure .

 

[Smallworld]

Nice follow-up... cannot wait for the next part.

 

[SushiMasterX]

The Word is coming soon...



You can feel the sky for now

Hep is this:

second mtg was just a repeat . the gen OP manager of employer came this time tho (the employer is spreading the heat)..maybe cant expense the HR peep....make the employer difficult. Even though she secretly loves me. Like a bee to honey production... True tho.. I could go on..

(i am beggining to feel the govt folks are not really on my side. Even after showing them the video cctv from secured gate home community, of the employer attacking with their monkeys security staff of ACS....Hellish Singapore whips all controlling. Tottaly Zolim!).

The govt staff of disnaker were very poignant and my translator from them said that my request was too big and it will never happen.....OK! That is nego...but to help the other side....hmmmmmmmmmMMMMMMMMMM!!!!!

So, we go on to the next third now, and tmrw the fourth...


The third is this (are you listening?):

Again the govt staff push....be careful folks...the mediation is not without a bias.

Just go to court! Months more...ha ha ha.... well

Now im at third of request full legal amount 300j, against employer.

more later. tiring, but i know its good fresh info to not share....

Sally forth!

Dismount and fight on foot!

 

[Smallworld]

Seems the negotiations are not going anywhere even with gov staff assistance.

 

[William King]

Sorry. I don't quite follow, how is it you are claming 300,000,000 IDR?

 

[Smallworld]

Sorry. I don't quite follow, how is it you are claming 300,000,000 IDR?

That is what he said:

Amount asked for when I get to mediation is salary remaining on contract and Xmas THR basically.

 

[William King]

Amount asked for when I get to mediation is salary remaining on contract and Xmas THR basically.

Eh ? How much do you get paid a month ? I very much doubt it is at or more than $10,000 per month.

 

[atlantis]

Eh ? How much do you get paid a month ? I very much doubt it is at or more than $10,000 per month.

If he is paid, for example, Rp 30jt per month and that there is 9 month remaining of contract you have your 300 jt WK (9 x 30jt + 1 month of THR).

 

[atlantis]

But anyway, thinking that a court would award him 300jt is being very optimistic imho (and in my experience). I would strongly advise to negotiate and adopt a more flexible attitude. Even if the school is ordered to pay any amount, having the judgement enforced is a tad more difficult that what it may be in the country of origin of SushiMasterX and it is something which should be perhaps pondered.

 

[William King]

If he is paid, for example, Rp 30jt per month and that there is 9 month remaining of contract you have your 300 jt WK (9 x 30jt + 1 month of THR).

He's claiming a year ?? On a 2 year contract that he was told he would be too old to complete ? wow, sorry I have little sympathy now, I thought he was asking for one or two months because they didnt let him finish the year.

THR or bonus, sure. Flights, sure.

An entire year's salary ?

Taking the piss.

 

[atlantis]

He's claiming a year ?? On a 2 year contract that he was told he would be too old to complete ? wow, sorry I have little sympathy now, I thought he was asking for one or two months because they didnt let him finish the year.

THR or bonus, sure. Flights, sure.

An entire year's salary ?

Taking the piss.

Please, note that it was an assumption from me based on what I think may be an average salary in a decent school. Anyway, he is obviously claiming more than a couple of month and it is where the court will cringe, despite what may be or may not be in the contract.
I honestly don't imagine a court granting a year of salary, not even 6 months in fact. And this is again assuming that they can't make up a serious enough reason for having broken the contract.

 

[Smallworld]

He's claiming a year ?? On a 2 year contract that he was told he would be too old to complete ? wow, sorry I have little sympathy now, I thought he was asking for one or two months because they didnt let him finish the year.

THR or bonus, sure. Flights, sure.

An entire year's salary ?

Taking the piss.

I understand what you are saying but some contracts of employment are "secured" in the meaning if one party would terminate the contract before its ending without good reasons they will pay the equivalent of salary left until the contract will expire to the other party.

Once you sign contract with a worker and he is not performing well it is very hard to terminate as he can go to court and sue the company for premature contract termination. It is very hard to prove in a court that someone is performing well in the working place or is lazy as hell. I know of one place which had such a case the management downgraded the employee to some less responsible job like floor cleaning to humiliate and encourage him to leave the job before the contract will expire.


But on the other side the court may also look at how the employee did behave on the last day of employment meaning leaving suddenly job is not good idea. The court will make sure everything is done according to the law "end of employment contract procedure", the contract itself if it is properly written and not breaching employment law ect.

I do agree with atlantis do what ever you can do to avoid court if you are guilty or not, better to solve problems without court presence.

BTW Atlantis Is the THR calculated like you said

300 jt WK (9 x 30jt + 1 month of THR).

or it is + 9/12 THR? My understanding is 1 month of THR is paid for full 12 months of employment.

 

[William King]

Please, note that it was an assumption from me based on what I think may be an average salary in a decent school. Anyway, he is obviously claiming more than a couple of month and it is where the court will cringe, despite what may be or may not be in the contract.
I honestly don't imagine a court granting a year of salary, not even 6 months in fact. And this is again assuming that they can't make up a serious enough reason for having broken the contract.

I think your calculations are about right. He's obviously claiming 6 to 12 months salary.

Edited to add, he left (was fired) in January - which normally means he had 6 months left.

 

[centurion]

By Manpower Law if the employer terminates the temporary contract, the employer has to pay all salaries from the moment of termination until the end of the contract to the employee. And vice versa applies- if the employee terminates the temporary contract unilaterally he has to pay all salaries from the moment of termination till the end of the contract to the employer.
At least on paper.

 

[SushiMasterX]

Hi. Things are still up in the air, but moving towards a court date now. I'll explain more/all in due time. Here are some pertinent details for the moment (also I have a question):



We have concluded all mediations and it was put forth last week by both parties to recommend it goes to the Industrial Court (IPH). The mediation is putting together it's recommendation to IPH this week (we both will receive complete sets of this) for the next step to begin. They asked for each side to submit a chronology of the entire incident's events submitted this week (I have translated mine and it was recommended by them also to explain the highlights and not every last detail), including mediation meetings so far. It does not appear that it is imperative to have the mediators approval finally though (they clarified this) and either side can still request it goes to court regardless.

The mediators said that both of us are still open to communicate through them about any concessions either of us may have in the interim.

They said it will take two weeks before the IPH court will look over the recommendation and decide whether to put it on the 'docket' list (go forward). They have expressed a few months before court proceedings could begin and a few months later from then for it to conclude.

They have almost nearly begged for it to not go to court and that both sides find a mutually agreeable conclusion before then.

I feel rather confident in my case (does that actually help here?), however I took a few concessions (in good faith, etc..), but the employer in the final mediation reneged on our last agreed settlement and chose a sizeably lower financial amount then we had agreed to in the previous meeting and therefore I put it to the mediators to push for the court case finally, as the employer seems to be just drawing this out as far as they can.

From the beginning mediation I began with the full amount the law provided for, but quickly halved (and then some..) to try and conclude judiciously (bijaksana). For the most part both parties seem to be within a 10% range of agreeing, but I would say the employer is just "tugging my line", in light of their reneging from the last mediation mtg offer. At each meeting they seem to want to include something that they could subtract, that we had already discussed as being unlawful and requiring us to look at the same contract verbage over and over that negates their capricious wish. Our contract clearly states that in a letter of termination any penalties/fees/payments to the employer that must be paid by the employee upon termination (drum roll), must be written in this letter. There was absolutely nothing. Oops!

The head of the mediation team stated to us all (weeks before) that the employer is still responsible for my "welfare" (or what word in Bahasa? Forgot. Livelihood?). Legally responsible, at any rate.

The "30 day clock" for mediation begins on the date that the informal mediation team recommends we move to formal mediation (end of third informal meeting), so in total about two months of mediation.

The team said that the court case will begin with the same mediation exercise again. ...wheels barely moving, but at least they (seemingly) exist and are round or semi-round.




-- William, I think you have mixed me together with the other teacher's (an age issue) suit. A wry kind of sour gado-gado.

-- From the onset I made claim to Disnaker to being fired (My request letter required that I state the appropriate law that I request to be settled through mediation. This was a paint by the numbers exercise.) and that I was owed the remainder of an annually contracted monthly salary and THR (prorated), retained salary (10% salary from each month of work completed) and a couple other minor things (flight out unimpeded, letter of employment, etc..), predominantly covered by the UU13 law.




** I also have a question. I seem to recall seeing somewhere that the law states that the employer must supply (i.e. pay) me with a lawyer for an IPH case. I can't seem to find that again after a good search here. Wishful thinking or has anyone else seen this statement? Is this actually part of the employment law regarding arbitration cases? Thanks for any help with this and any passages from the law that could be quoted, or pointing me to a link if any such things exist.



More, as it plays out.

-Sush'

 

[William King]

"-- William, I think you have mixed me together with the other teacher's (an age issue) suit. A wry kind of sour gado-gado."

My apologies then.

 

[centurion]

Never heard about the obligation of the employer to pay employees litigation costs.
In Indonesia, if not stated otherwise in the agreement every party bears its own costs, especially lawyer`s cost, and are not reimbursed if they win the case.
Lawyer`s costs are from a couple of dozens of million and up, usually with some downpayment.

 

[Smallworld]

[QUOTE

** I also have a question. I seem to recall seeing somewhere that the law states that the employer must supply (i.e. pay) me with a lawyer for an IPH case. I can't seem to find that again after a good search here. Wishful thinking or has anyone else seen this statement? Is this actually part of the employment law regarding arbitration cases? Thanks for any help with this and any passages from the law that could be quoted, or pointing me to a link if any such things exist.



More, as it plays out.

-Sush'

I am not 100%sure but the court can order your school to cover your legal bill after you won the case. It may also depend from what kind of legal case it is, what is the amount of money being involved (asked for). Bare in mind that the court may ask for the other part of found guilty to cover only some % not necessary 100%. I am also not sure if this exist in employment law. More likely it is broadly written in court sentencing guidelines for judges including some examples.
But this is all my guess only.

 

[Smallworld]

Such a shame this thread wasn't updated such a long time..... I wonder how things went for sushi-tei especially after involving lawyers and perhaps court.

 

[William King]

Probably still ongoing, I would venture to suggest.