HELP!: School forced EPO thru Imigrasi this week.

Okay, so I sent this one now. A little kinder and showing my understanding and being compliant like:



I never use this email. Old!


Why you not tell me this ticket on Wednesday?



Why you play game?



Why you talk to me yesterday take to airport with you?



Where is ticket? Where is Overstay money?



This is not nice peoples style mister.



I teach Indonesian children to speak English. I am **[is]** a teacher! I live in Indonesia 15 years now.



I am good people. Wife Indonesia, two children Indonesia.



Company Tiara BangSet is bad people.

Money, money, money.....itu aja, ya!
 
You are not using a good approach at all. You may be understandably frustrated but this is digging your own hole.
 
Okay, so I sent this one now. A little kinder and showing my understanding and being compliant like:



I never use this email. Old!


Why you not tell me this ticket on Wednesday?



Why you play game?



Why you talk to me yesterday take to airport with you?



Where is ticket? Where is Overstay money?



This is not nice peoples style mister.



I teach Indonesian children to speak English. I am **[is]** a teacher! I live in Indonesia 15 years now.



I am good people. Wife Indonesia, two children Indonesia.



Company Tiara BangSet is bad people.

Money, money, money.....itu aja, ya!

Okay, lets stop right here and take a breather. I understand that you're upset, but sending this e-mail to Indonesian immigration is very likely to make your problem into a bigger one. Also, it is not their problem if you don't check old e-mail addresses that they have on file for you.

Further, it is one thing if the immigration officers are taking action against you because your employer is making them, and something altogether different if they start to actually get pissed off at you and decide to REALLY take action.

Your best bet, and I hope you follow it, is to pay the overstay, get out of Indonesia now with your own funds to Singapore or somewhere cheap, come back the next day, and then you can start your mediation with DisNakerTrans. Immigration cares very little about your dispute with your employer, all they care about is that you are in compliance with your residency permit, which as of yesterday you are not.

You are already fighting a battle with long odds in your favor, and the steps you have taken (and plan to take), are not making them better.
 
Also, why are you writing in fake broken English? The immigration official may not be able to express themselves in proper English, but they sure know when you are talking down to them.
 
It was suggested to you earlier and now again to depart Indonesia and then return on a free or tourist visa. This has been the best information to make you compliant with Immigration Regulations and to give yourself time to take care of your business. Right now you are only creating more problems for yourself with Immigration and like it or not, they are the ones in the driver's seat since you are but a guest and a guest that is not in compliance with their regulations. Not really where you want to be. I suggest a follow up email starting with a whole bunch of sincere appologies and how you never meant anything. About how you are just frustrated because you want to do things right but have hit so many roadblocks. Then, appologise again and hope they accept it or your next problem may be having people get you off a blacklist in 6 to 12 months. This is not the time to be stupid.
 
I knowwwww.... bit spent of late. Serious hair up my craw too.

In jogja, balikpapan, surabaya, and everywhere here i would somehow always hang out with these guys. My passport address is a famous army post, maybe why. They'd always pass their service pistols around the cafe tables for me to toy with, and loaded too. I taught their children if asked! No problemo ya. Muy copasetic. Always was mi casa su casa. I'd cook up food for them at my house! They'd just pop in at night, bringing wine or JD. I love cooking and they loved mashed potatoes with butter, full cream and corn on top, with a buttered, saged, salted n peppered flash fried steak of course. EZ PZ. They'd seriously drool when the fire sang out and belched fat. I watched em drool more than once. Way to a mans heart is mommas cookin, grandma said. I love ya grams.

Jakarta is not being copasetic, seems though. I don't go out anymore to drink at cafes, so they don't have a chance to know me also. Confused or jealous possibly. Would love to read the govt report on myself, that they could all see.

Wife and one kid are in Da Nang now, at the beach.....ah jeez

Tired .
 
The overstay fines are accumulating as you insist on staying here. You could use the money to get out and come back and reduce the number of problems you are facing as well as showing good will to all parties. You will have to leave at some point anyway, so why not make your life easier?
 
Speak to your audience yes? Less complex? Adjust according to (witnessed) ability.

No???

I'm sure as an English teacher you are aware that:

1) Active English levels are usually much lower than passive English levels. IOW, they can probably read better than speak/write it.
2) There is a difference between simple English, and the pidgin that you came up with.

Don't take this the wrong way, but I am having less and less sympathy towards your situation, and I'm not even involved in it. I imagine the officials you are dealing with are even less impressed. Maybe reevaluate your whole approach to this matter, and examine whether your goal is to "be right" or to actually achieve a resolution favorable to you.

Frankly, if I ever were to write an article on how to NOT deal with Indonesian (or really any other kind of) public officials, your approach would be a great example.
 
I know Dafluff. Help yourself at it

15 years and it's worked just fine this way however.

There isn't a determinable answer though. I am the seeker. I'm humble in origin. Net can't express that yet, unfortunately. One dimensional. Writing novels, I am not an expert of. I'm a tech writer with BA Elec Engr, and Education latter dayz.
 
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Look I was sort of in the same boat(issues with immigration/overstay) a few weeks ago and I am starting to write what happened very shortly and will post the link here, but the emails you sent aren't going to help you.

If I were in your shoes, I wouldn't have responded until I was fully awake and had time to calm down.

My email would have gone something like this:

Dear Pak/Ibu(whoever sent you the email),

I am sorry, but I just saw this email as this is an old account that is not used regularly. I am not sure about this ticket as when I went to the airport and talked to *insert the person who helped you*, there were no records of this email.

I am a bit confused and would like help in clarifying this ticket as last I spoke to you, I had mentioned I hadn't received a ticket. We had previous spoke on *insert day, time location(office, phone, etc...* when the school called. I was waiting to hear back from you, but I understand things come up.

I am a bit frustrated, but I understand this is a complicated case which may take some time to resolve.

My wife is Indonesian and we have two children after living in Indonesia for 15 years. I am not trying to cause any problems as I don't want to disrupt or cause problems for them with their schooling.

Again I apologize for any misunderstanding on my part and not checking all my email accounts.

if you have any questions or concerns, feel free to call me at *insert your number* or my secretary at *insert number*. I will be home this weekend or I can come to your office on Monday.

*signed your name*


This way you have cooled down, they see you are apologetic, understanding, and willing to meet and discuss things further.
 
I can only reiterate what people have said above, the angry emails in stupid English will only inflame the situation and or be used against you.

Overstaying causes you a problem. You need to leave the country, and then return to fight.

Honestly, I would have gone to the airport anyway, and no ticket would then make them look bad, now instead they are saying you were seen with a girl, shopping instead of checking in.

You need to fight smart.
 
He did send me a message, but I am trying to figure out if he is back home in his home country or what. It wasn't clear.

He also said he was going to email them and hopefully email the mock email I created.
 
He did send me a message, but I am trying to figure out if he is back home in his home country or what. It wasn't clear.

He also said he was going to email them and hopefully email the mock email I created.

I though he wanted to re-entry Indonesia to obtain new visa by going to Singapore?
 
Hi. I am back and first off, thanks for any and all replies to date on this matter. I just want to update quickly now. Later (probably after all resolved) I will respond with more complete details. I'm concerned about jinxing and as this is a public forum... Okay, I'll just throw the info below out as it pops in my head:


**Three informal mediations (first mtg was with one alone and then with an additional asst/scribe after) and one formal (different group of two from the same govt office, including a translator/scribe, though both spoke English quite well) have completed. This week will be the second formal mtg.

**The 30 day clock for mediation is running, seems to have begun from the first informal mediation mtg date.

**The first informal mtg was contentious and the mediator seemed rather jaded towards myself, but quickly neutral after a short time. Following two mtgs were neutral appearing, however just slightly so seeming against myself. I think the full details had not become clear to the mediator yet, and by the third meeting there was not a contentious feeling emitting from the mediator.

**Please make sure you have a personal translator of your own during the informal mtgs, and less so during the formal. Best to have one always though if you are not completely fluent at Bahasa. The other side brown noses the mediator every chance they get and I missed a few that my asst reminded me of immediately so I could respond.

**The mediations are continuing on because we could not agree, obviously. I will have more details on this (especially later on), specifically what may be most beneficial to someone in the same predicament, but may appear somewhat vague still to some. Spelling it out to well also allows the other side to gain.

**At the end of meetings we all signed and expressed in our own words what had taken place at each mediation and the outcome. We all saved fotos of this on our phones.

**Cordial govt staff. Quite professional and also warm greetings as we sit in the staff room. Handshakes (at end of mediation go around with govt officials, but I'll wait til end for shakes with the other side) and silly comments flow around while waiting. A couple of tubes to watch news etc on, around the office.

**Make sure you keep your original paperwork, don't let it stray during the meeting. The mediator asked to see my termination letter at the second meeting and it somehow ended up with the opposition side and then when they brought it up in the next meeting I could see it was the original I lost and with my notes on it.. Whoa, close one! Asked to see it and then said thanks for returning my letter.

**The employer's working contract that may be beyond what you have signed was requested at the end of the third informal mtg, to be brought to the first formal mtg. It is called a Pay-Pay, "PP". It may be the "additional contract details packet" mentioned in the short signed contract I had. Make sure you have read through that as well as your signed contract. Mine states that any disagreements ultimately are governed by Indonesian law/hukum, UU 13 in this case.

&

**Termination letters require (in my contract) that any fees, payments due back to the employer must be written in the termination letter. Mine did not have any written in it. The employer tried to subtract these from my expected reparation amount, but I showed that they had gone against their own contract. They still contended this in last mtg and so why I am still in mediation, and other things...


Finally,

Be cool, I think is the best advice. Realize the mediation is for both sides to try and find a "win-win". Detailed laws can be explained to the other side, but as I was interrupted during the first mtg (I was citing quite a few laws) by the mediator, saying that "laws are for the court later, if need be" (more or less like that).
Stating your feelings, rather than exactly why they were bona fide lays at the heart here in these mediations. I had not been to one before. I do continue to remind employer's team of the part of the contract or the exact law that could be referenced though. Those mentioned/reaffirmed as side notes, rather than the bulk of our statements, on both sides.

My employer brought a lawyer at each mediation. I didn't see much spoken between the employer rep' and the lawyer for the most part, but there was the physical presence of course. My asst is a lawyer also, but especially a friend and translator as well.


Perhaps things could conclude shortly, or perhaps it will go on to the Industrial Court. I think 160 days was mentioned by the mediator for a time frame to complete a court case by.

I was approached in the lobby by the asst mediator last time when exiting the building, and asked to try to find a softer stance and to find the win-win quickly. I then explained how they had attacked my house, broke my side door in and this captured on cctv by the residential security (some of the residence security have been fired, those that escorted the school's thugs into the residence, clearly seen in the video). He sort of gave me a little more room then, surprised, but reasserted the tone to find a win-win. Hmmm.......??


More as it becomes useful.

,Sush'
 

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