Government Trying to Stop Outside Interference

[fastpitch17]

And in the mean time:

An attack today at the church in Samarinda, by a known and convicted terrorist, who was released from prison only two years after similar attacks to for instance a church in Serpong.

How can you prepare for that?

Stay out of church?

 

[jstar]

Think the inside is safer than the outside. And airconditioned.

 

[fastpitch17]

Think the inside is safer than the outside. And airconditioned.

TheoneinMedanwasn't.Saferinside.

 

[jstar]

Well,theonesinJakartahavereallycrankeduptheirsecurity.

The thing is, what is next. It's just a matter of time. And even in a Jakarta there are not that many hotspots. Which might be positive from a containment perspective but it also brings us to my remark on safety compared with our own continent; over there the chance that something happens might be the same but.... it is much smaller that it happens close to you.

You can hardly (and I don't want to) avoid certain places here just because there is more risk. (But hey, the decision to be in Europe the months around Christmas was no coincidence.)

 

[PhilippeD]

Like i said in the other tread "church fire bombed", I believe the link is not more than a motivation from the event in Jakarata.

It's a small church in the outskirt of the city. It sure it have it's impact, but with the guy already arrested and don't think the story will go further than this (for Samarinda)

 

[Zavia]

Think the inside is safer than the outside. And airconditioned.

You got me at Aircon!

Although, what should we expect? Even shit hits the fan, what can we do about it? Stuff the mattress? Prepare a go-bag?

I came into the coutry with a "go passport wallet". useful to have ready.

 

[Davita]

You got me at Aircon!


I came into the coutry with a "go passport wallet". useful to have ready.

I had many friends flying for Cyprus Airways when the Turks invaded in 1974. All they had when they got on the next flight was their passports.
Some had villas, yachts, cars....all gone!

 

[Pak Asam Manis]

Hm. I have been out of Indonesia since late June of this year. Have not been here (forum) in a few months I think. My wife tracks the news pretty well but we haven't talked about the political situation(s) between us to a serious degree. We have discussed the development with Ahok and the protests etc and I have been reading about and following the story online to some extent. Wife says that yes, there is a lot of foreign money and support flowing in to FPI and others. I know about the apparent uptick in attacks on churches etc and intolerance generally seems to be on the rise.

Basically what I want to say here is I feel "out of the loop" to some extent and today I read this: (see link at bottom)

Then I come to forum and read this thread. So my first thought on reading the article was "this is surely exaggeration on the journalist's part ** ... go tell Henny Penny, the sky is falling, etc".

What I want to ask now is: Do you think it IS exaggeration, or not?



** By the way, I noticed only after reading the article that it was written by Step Vaessen. I am familiar with her from her reports on AJE. I know that she has been in Indonesia for a long time, covered East Timor and etc, and I take her as a serious and respectable journalist .. which gives me pause and, on its own, makes me rethink my initial assessment of the piece.


http://www.aljazeera.com/blogs/asia/2016/11/indonesian-fire-play-161117101320534.html

 

[jstar]

Basically what I want to say here is I feel "out of the loop" to some extent and today I read this: (see link at bottom)

Then I come to forum and read this thread. So my first thought on reading the article was "this is surely exaggeration on the journalist's part ** ... go tell Henny Penny, the sky is falling, etc".

I guess you can say that. You have some reading and catching up to do then (approx. 315 posts):

https://forum.expatindo.org/showthread.php?1004-4-11-and-25-11-anti-Ahok-demonstrations

 

[Pak Asam Manis]

Don't think I have sufficient free time for 33 pages, but I'll have a look. We have been back in the U.S. for about six weeks and uh ... we've had some shit going on locally here too. I've been pretty focused on that ...

As I said, I am generally aware and informed, in a broad outline sort of way, about the protest, what the protest was supposedly about / caused by, a bit of the who, why and how of the forces behind the protest, how foreign money is being used to support the hardliners and etc, the fact that people were paid to protest (shock!), etc.

I'm also aware of the rise in church attacks, as well as the vandalism of a Jakarta mosque about which I have my own suspicions as to "whodunnit", and why, prior to the demo.

The wife is definitely keeping up to date online, has access to all major tv news channels (live streaming thanks to Vidio.com) as well as online news and social media. She doesn't seem to think the sky is about to fall. She's fairly savvy and she seems to take all this as basically "the normal stuff" of Indonesian political theater, agit-prop and guerilla war. She apparently feels that the majority of people are smart enough to resist being manipulated to any large degree, while myself and me are not so sure ... if I were there, I would at a minimum have a sense of how things felt "on the ground", at least locally. And those of you who are there have that advantage on me at the moment ... so:

Considering the story (opinion piece, really) I linked and what people have said so far in THIS thread, without getting into the weeds of it all, I'm just asking a general question:

Do you (whomever "you" may be) consider the opinion offered by Ms. Vaessen to be an exaggeration of the situation, or not? Is the country really "on the edge" (her words) of a potential upheaval threatening Pancasila itself and / or the standing government? Is it as serious as that? What do you think? How do you feel?

If feeling pressed for time, you can always take it as a simple poll and just answer "yes" or "no", but I'm asking for opinions from those who are there.

 

[fastpitch17]

Yes, I do think this is a move to bring more power to those that demand an Islamic government. The powers they want will not come through simply their demand of it. it will come through political agreements. These riots/protest/rallies were pretty much shown to be organized and financed by politicians that want first to take Jakarta and then the nation in leadership be it that the one sitting in the seat will be a puppet of the finances.

Ahok and his speech just played into their hands. Even without the speech there would have been attempts to discredit him. He has to be removed or his name made mud in order for anyone opposing him to have a chance. Even the up loader of the video is pleading Free Speech as a defense while they try to crucify someone by removing any type of free speech vision.

Now another "rally" is planned for December 2nd. The labor unions are planning to join just to add their demands for a higher minimum wage. Everyone knows the forces behind all these protest are in all likelihood planning for unrest and a show similar to 98. Jokowi wasn't a fool to have high level meetings with the Police and Military. He knows he may need them due to so many radicals now calling for his ouster and they are being pushed by someone/s.

Using religion as an excuse for these rallies brings out bodies where as just using politics would keep more home. Thus, the incorporation of the hardliner radical thug groups. What will get Jokowi in trouble with many people right now is his soft approach to those groups and individuals certainly breaking the law by calling for hangings of individuals, beheading of individuals, and the killing of individuals. Primarily Ahok and Jokowi while appeasing those that want Ahok in prison.

I see the downfall of Indonesia's religion by the leaders of Indonesia's religious organization in order to obtain power and in all likelihood, cash by corrupt means. Ahok and Jokowi are anti corruption leaders and many hate them for it. SBY's administration seems to be falling to the KPK one at a time.

In the end. Power to one group with benefits to another. While at this time I am not too worried, with time and if it continues at the pace it's building up to, I see bloodshed unless sensible people can come forward and convey an acceptable alternative.

 

[Pak Asam Manis]

Thanks 'pitch. Most of your analysis of the situation seems pretty spot-on to me. My only quibbles would be with the idea that this will be "the downfall of Indonesia's religion by the leaders of Indonesia's religious organization" ... maybe you could clarify that. If you mean the downfall of Islam as a religion, I don't agree, of course, but if you mean the subversion of the country and of Islam within the country to political ends, then clearly yes, that is what they are trying to do. What I see that is very disheartening is the blatant attempt to subvert Jokowi's government by manipulating the people through religion, and the clear goal they have of dismantling Pancasila. They think that they can force Indonesia to become what they want it to be, by willpower, manipulation and trickery.. it's nothing new, but "they" are clearly taking on strength and getting bolder. Do they want to turn the religious minorities into the Rohingya of Indonesia? Apparently so. Sad.

I agree that Ahok was careless and stupid to say what he said, just like Clinton was with the "basket of deplorables". One might think that seasoned and savvy pols would know when to keep their mouths shut. It doesn't excuse the reaction, but he did play right into their hands.

Hope Jokowi can keep things together and keep the lid off just enough to let out the steam ... If he should lose the army and or the police, all hell breaks loose ... even if some of his ministers start to peel off and crumble away, I can see that it could start to get very ugly. I hope that will not happen, and I think Jokowi is definitely both smarter and stronger than many give him credit for. Hopefully he's got a plan for this contingency and if so, it needs to kick into gear.

 

[fastpitch17]

No, Islam would of course survive but in a direction most wouldn't want to go but learning that direction too late. As for Jokowi's Ministers. There has been some talk that a few quite possibly would lean away from him.

 

[Pak Asam Manis]

No, Islam would of course survive but in a direction most wouldn't want to go but learning that direction too late. As for Jokowi's Ministers. There has been some talk that a few quite possibly would lean away from him.

Okay, got it this time, thanks.

Talked to the wife. She seems to believe that Singapore has a significant involvement (along with Malaysia and other players) in the pressure being applied from outside (because of the financial damage from the tax amnesty, primarily).

Combined with the influence and money from Arab States, and the enemies from within, many of them scrambling to avoid going to jail and losing their ill-gotten gains, it all seems to make a bit of a "perfect storm" scenario. All they need is a struck match to light the benzin, and Ahok unwittingly gave them a spark ...

It honestly makes me really sad. The manipulation of religion as a political tool, the church bombings and knife attacks. A "black" church in Mississippi was firebombed just before the US election and "Vote Trump" spraypainted on the wall. It's all the same. Hatred and intolerance are on the rise almost everywhere it seems, along with demagogues and blustering strongmen "leaders" who don't even bother putting up a pretense to caring about democracy ... Putin, Erdogan, Duterte, the far right parties in UK, France, Germany ... and now Trump.

I have many Christian, Buddhist, Hindu friends and former colleagues in Indonesia, and I'm increasingly afraid for them, just as I'm afraid for Muslims in .