Goodbye Bali

[fastpitch17]

I bet it was a man that came up with that rule! What an archaic tradition. Why are the men so afraid of giving women power? You sure don't see many in the political ads? Why can't Catholic priests have wives? Look at many of them becoming pedophiles! I'm not saying we should change over to a Matriarchal society, that could be just as out of balance. Let's try an equal society of Men and women running the show!
What if the deceased husband doesn't have a brother? This really makes the females look worthless in this society! Why hijabs for women and not for males?

To get an understanding of many Indonesian customs you need to look back in history. Way back even. As far as the Bali customers you need to look at Hindu customs. It was always the rule that when the husband died, the wife would marry the husbands brother. No one else. Many customs that you may not know about simply because you personally have not experienced them or come across them in studies of some kind. The majority of customs when it comes to the sexes is male dominate. Same for Islamist. To answer your question, yes, most rules were in fact written by males over the past few thousand years including all the religions people follow.

 

[fastpitch17]

While this thread is titled, "Goodbye Bali", What are you saying goodbye to? Perhaps Bali as a Island if the Gods as far as foreigners are concerned will lose it's identity. Rest assured, as far as the Balinese are concerned, no matter how the island changes, no matter that large incomes become small, the Balinese will not lose their personal identity of being Balinese Hindus. Their customs and beliefs will stay strong. I pity the person or organization that tries to step on their customs and traditions. It will be ugly.

 

[harryopal1]

The Bali I had in mind was when it was less tangled with traffic and not overwhelmed with buildings springing up everywhere, and sometimes only half springing up. Where there was not so much focus on dreaming up ideas as to how to squeeze more money out of tourists. A place where you mingled with Balinese without feeling you were in yet another world famous site where you can hardly move for foreigners, like myself. I think we have pretty much said goodbye to that Bali.

 

[centurion]

This really makes the females look worthless in this society!

In the tradition, woman is man's best friend, after the dog and the horse.

 

[fastpitch17]

The Bali I had in mind was when it was less tangled with traffic and not overwhelmed with buildings springing up everywhere, and sometimes only half springing up. Where there was not so much focus on dreaming up ideas as to how to squeeze more money out of tourists. A place where you mingled with Balinese without feeling you were in yet another world famous site where you can hardly move for foreigners, like myself. I think we have pretty much said goodbye to that Bali.
View attachment 3845

True. The Bali of old is no more. Bali of today is concrete and outstretched hands.

 

[serious_fun]

I red somewhere (may be here in this forum?) that there was (still is?) similar project, Eco beach city, by Spanish developer in Karimun Jawa. People are against it because it's conservation area.

Orwellian! "Eco City, the development which destroys a conservation area."

 

[serious_fun]

Why can't Catholic priests have wives? Look at many of them becoming pedophiles!

What does Catholic tradition have to do with the ugly mess known as 'Bali' ?

 

[Shadrach]

What does Catholic tradition have to do with the ugly mess known as 'Bali' ?

I was referring to patriarchy and matriarchy. This country is controlled by religion ( patriarchy) and it seems Catholicism does the same. why can't catholic priest marry women? Is it because if the priest marries and has children the church will lose control over land and wealth? Sadly it has totally backfired and just now being uncovered after many years, because of this oppression the priests who still wanted sex took it from young boys at their monasteries, schools, etc. who came up with the idea that a man must abstain from sex with a woman to stay pure? The Buddhist do the same thing, which leads to pedophilia. I admit I am no expert in this subject but something seems broken with it. If anyone can explain the rational of celibacy to be pure, but it perverts the priests and monks to molest children. Please explain the justification in this. So to answer your question, patriarchy seems to be the root of the problem here and everywhere.

 

[fastpitch17]

I was referring to patriarchy and matriarchy. This country is controlled by religion ( patriarchy) and it seems Catholicism does the same. why can't catholic priest marry women? Is it because if the priest marries and has children the church will lose control over land and wealth? Sadly it has totally backfired and just now being uncovered after many years, because of this oppression the priests who still wanted sex took it from young boys at their monasteries, schools, etc. who came up with the idea that a man must abstain from sex with a woman to stay pure? The Buddhist do the same thing, which leads to pedophilia. I admit I am no expert in this subject but something seems broken with it. If anyone can explain the rational of celibacy to be pure, but it perverts the priests and monks to molest children. Please explain the justification in this. So to answer your question, patriarchy seems to be the root of the problem here and everywhere.

While I won't dispute that Patriarchy contributes to many problems or the lack of effort to right the wrongs but it is unwise to point fingers at particular groups.

The Catholic priests and their sexual molestations is certainly not a recent issue. They have found this going back quite far in time. Books on the history of the Popes have shown some if the worst offenders being the earlier Popes. One can not just point out the abuse if one without including the others. The Baptist just came out with a report that they too have been covering up abuse of children for longer than decades. Look at the Evangelicals and how they have pushed through legislations that put the male's thumbs directly on the women and children. As far as Buddhist monks one needs to look at who the monks are. The vast majority of young monks are in those schools because parents can not afford to educate them elsewhere. The majority leave the monkhood when they become adults. Look at all the reporting of child sexual molestations right here in Indonesia. The so called teachers of Islam in private schools seem to make the majority of the news reports. Hindus in India seem to think they can rape when they please and in most cases get away with it. I doubt any religion can say they are above all this. It is religion that glorifies the male's over females.

 

[Helpful Herbert]

Yes, male testosterone and its side effects (aggression, ambition, war, religion, patriarchy etc) are to blame for most of the bad things that have happened through history. They are also responsible for most of the great inventions and great art we have, not to mention sport, medicine and education. So it's a bit of a double-edged sword.

 

[Bob]

True. The Bali of old is no more. Bali of today is concrete and outstretched hands.

The Bali of old is there in places. But those places are fewer and fewer.

 

[kripik-pisang]

most rules were in fact written by males over the past few thousand years including all the religions people follow.

You mean they weren't recorded on a dictaphone by god, or taken down in shorthand, and then just typed up by people. Whoever would have thought.

 

[harryopal1]

I once asked a Catholic friend who won a Harvard scholarship how he reconciled the contradictions in his religious beliefs. His response was "faith". So if one can get young children and indoctrinate them you pretty well have them for life. I recall a commonly used priestly response to unanswerable questions has been "It is all veiled in a cloud of mystery." Many similarities in techniques used by many different religions. The worrying pattern is where this leads to any questions as blasphemous and the non believer potentially to be punished with death.

There are parts of Bali and Islamic Indonesia where you need to tread lightly. And the same goes for many places of worship around the world.

 

[fastpitch17]

You mean they weren't recorded on a dictaphone by god, or taken down in shorthand, and then just typed up by people. Whoever would have thought.

No, in most cases it is just some guy proclaiming they know what their god or faith leaders from hundreds of years prior want you to think. The experts.

 

[fastpitch17]

I once asked a Catholic friend who won a Harvard scholarship how he reconciled the contradictions in his religious beliefs. His response was "faith". So if one can get young children and indoctrinate them you pretty well have them for life. I recall a commonly used priestly response to unanswerable questions has been "It is all veiled in a cloud of mystery." Many similarities in techniques used by many different religions. The worrying pattern is where this leads to any questions as blasphemous and the non believer potentially to be punished with death.

There are parts of Bali and Islamic Indonesia where you need to tread lightly. And the same goes for many places of worship around the world.

Definition of Faith. While I or anyone else can not produce even a minute amount of evidence to back up our beliefs, it is the fact and you can take that to the bank.

 

[Bob]

I once asked a Catholic friend who won a Harvard scholarship how he reconciled the contradictions in his religious beliefs. His response was "faith". So if one can get young children and indoctrinate them you pretty well have them for life. I recall a commonly used priestly response to unanswerable questions has been "It is all veiled in a cloud of mystery." Many similarities in techniques used by many different religions. The worrying pattern is where this leads to any questions as blasphemous and the non believer potentially to be punished with death.

There are parts of Bali and Islamic Indonesia where you need to tread lightly. And the same goes for many places of worship around the world.

And Christian and Ancestral Religion Indonesia too.

 

[pantaiema]

Si "Kocong. entertaining but sad to see unhappy ending ....
This little boy is nicknamed "Kocong," though I'm not sure how the locals came up with this nickname. He went viral for often wandering around Ubud barefoot without wearing clothes (top), unsupervised. He can be seen climbing onto roofs and harvesting coconuts.
https://en.dream.co.id/stories/the-...bali-often-disturbs-residents-175303-mvk.html

It is an entertaining to see this little boy climbing the roof, harvesting people coconut but at the same time it is sad to see the deportation. The immigration is doing what is stated in the law.

 

[fastpitch17]

Si "Kocong. entertaining but sad to see unhappy ending ....
This little boy is nicknamed "Kocong," though I'm not sure how the locals came up with this nickname. He went viral for often wandering around Ubud barefoot without wearing clothes (top), unsupervised. He can be seen climbing onto roofs and harvesting coconuts.
https://en.dream.co.id/stories/the-...bali-often-disturbs-residents-175303-mvk.html

It is an entertaining to see this little boy climbing the roof, harvesting people coconut but at the same time it is sad to see the deportation. The immigration is doing what is stated in the law.

I really can't think of a single reason this would be entertaining. The boy has a failed family. Parents that should be held responsible. To just let a child run free because the parents no longer support him is child abuse. The husband needs to be raked over the coals too. Ukrainian Embassy in Norway need to grab this guy.

 

[pantaiema]

It's so cute, who would not be upset about losing such an adorable puppy due to the irresponsibility of a dog hotel? This dog hotel typically charges over IDR 100,000 a day, and on top of that, dog meals cost around IDR 50k a day. By Indonesian standard of living this is expensive considering typical salary in Indonesia is around IDR5m a month and this might be the figure this owner of dog hotel are paying to their staffs.

This is just another example of how some Indonesians like to adopt practices from other countries, but when it comes to responsibility, they tend to overlook it. Also asking the dog owner to remove the collar tag is so unprofessional. Situations like this should not happen if they are professional with responsibility. At the very least, they should have had insurance to cover such incidents.

The same issue can be seen in 'canggu' rental market. This practice continues as some tourists, remote workers, and digital nomads, influencers are willing to rent apartments with the price that those back home.

What they often overlook is that their rights are quite limited in Indonesia. The buildings are usually of low quality, constructed with inferior building materials and standard, and local rates apply to their staffs, builders, notaries, and land acquisition while charging similar price to rental in developed countries. Sometimes, these people might even needs to deal with mosquitoes and ants, house lizards in their accommodations.

This is simply the law of supply and demand, and the current figures do not lie. But as usual this trend will eventually slow down when reality sets in, especially as they start to realize they are paying an overprice accommodation, at some points their income will be taxed in Indonesia.

 

[Samoerai]

By Indonesian standard of living this is expensive considering typical salary in Indonesia is around IDR5m a month and this might be the figure this owner of dog hotel are paying to their staffs.

The UMR in Bali is .. between 2,8 - 3,3 juta.