FPI Demonstration on Saturday 11 Feb 2017

[R Cameron]

More then I thought.

https://en.tempo.co/read/news/2017/...000-Indonesian-Muslims-Involved-in-Radicalism

I think the headline is deceiving, obviously 600,000 people did not confess to radical acts. It was 1200 people surveyed and apparently only 5 people responded they had been involved in radical acts. 0.4% in a survey that claims a 2.6% margin of error.

And how did they define "radicalism acts" for the survey? To me that sounds like beatings, arson, or worse. The article says a radical act would include "conduct a protest against the group that is considered as a threat to Islam’s sanctity"

New headline: "0.4% of Indonesian Muslims surveyed claim to have ever taken part in protest against groups opposing Islam"

 

[fastpitch17]

New headline: "0.4% of Indonesian Muslims surveyed claim to have ever taken part in protest against groups opposing Islam"

That is still not a small number if looking at the total number of individuals.

 

[dafluff]

I think the headline is deceiving, obviously 600,000 people did not confess to radical acts. It was 1200 people surveyed and apparently only 5 people responded they had been involved in radical acts. 0.4% in a survey that claims a 2.6% margin of error.

And how did they define "radicalism acts" for the survey? To me that sounds like beatings, arson, or worse. The article says a radical act would include "conduct a protest against the group that is considered as a threat to Islam’s sanctity"

New headline: "0.4% of Indonesian Muslims surveyed claim to have ever taken part in protest against groups opposing Islam"

Thanks for digging slightly deeper than the click-bait headline!

 

[Daniel50]

Some people, anecdotally, on social media notice an increase in intolerance. Maybe partly because of the greater use of social media, prior these would not be reported. Some Muslim people report a growing intolerance among some of their fellow Muslims. This is backed up by articles from some Muslim professors at Islamic Indonesian universities, some have postulated Indonesia is being drawn into a larger geopolitical conflict Sunni/Shia and in the process being changed. There is also a growing "Arabic" influence on Islam in Indonesia. This is also reported by some in NU, some politicians and anecdotally by some Indonesians. I watched a documentary on a Pakistani Muslim, who lives in Britain. As part of the documentary he traced the growing radicalism in Pakistan. Some of the more moderate Muslims, in Pakistan, indicated they had their own Islam which was accepting of pluralism. Another person indicated he used to have neighbors who were Christian and Hindu and they all got along. This has changed according to him and many have moved away. He also interviewed a Pakistani Islamic scholar from Oxford university. He indicated they have become more "Arabic" perhaps believing it makes them more spiritual. But, they really need to return to accepting a more plural tolerant view which accepts one can be Muslim and be Pakistani etc. etc.. Is this some of the process Indonesia is slowly going through? The person doing the documentary also attributed some of the problems to a weak education system, in Pakistan. He indicated many children there were receiving education in schools where they teach only religion and a conservative view. I heard one of Indonesia's politicians say they have recently needed to wake up to the extent radicalism is growing in Indonesia. What do you think?

 

[Dan]

Some people, anecdotally, on social media notice an increase in intolerance. Maybe partly because of the greater use of social media, prior these would not be reported. Some Muslim people report a growing intolerance among some of their fellow Muslims. This is backed up by articles from some Muslim professors at Islamic Indonesian universities, some have postulated Indonesia is being drawn into a larger geopolitical conflict Sunni/Shia and in the process being changed. There is also a growing "Arabic" influence on Islam in Indonesia. This is also reported by some in NU, some politicians and anecdotally by some Indonesians. I watched a documentary on a Pakistani Muslim, who lives in Britain. As part of the documentary he traced the growing radicalism in Pakistan. Some of the more moderate Muslims, in Pakistan, indicated they had their own Islam which was accepting of pluralism. Another person indicated he used to have neighbors who were Christian and Hindu and they all got along. This has changed according to him and many have moved away. He also interviewed a Pakistani Islamic scholar from Oxford university. He indicated they have become more "Arabic" perhaps believing it makes them more spiritual. But, they really need to return to accepting a more plural tolerant view which accepts one can be Muslim and be Pakistani etc. etc.. Is this some of the process Indonesia is slowly going through? The person doing the documentary also attributed some of the problems to a weak education system, in Pakistan. He indicated many children there were receiving education in schools where they teach only religion and a conservative view. I heard one of Indonesia's politicians say they have recently needed to wake up to the extent radicalism is growing in Indonesia. What do you think?

Indonesia's problem is Indonesian identity and attending nationalism, that's what has killed the most people and caused the most pathos. Islamic fundamentalism is a challenge, but I'm much more concerned with the police and military than I am nutcases. I think that, for white people, yeah, Islamic fundamentalists are scary because they're much more likely to be the targets of such a threat.

A lot of people talk a big game about the influence of "Arab" Islam. Arabic is our liturgical language, it's kind of a nonissue that Muslims are interacting in Arabic. Xenophobes in Indonesia probably complain about the oversized influenced of English in advertising and schools, does that mean that its people should be turning their backs on the lingua franca of business and academia?

We are in a period of Islamic revival, where Muslims are learning more about their religion directly from their texts. Free information has sped up this process, as the world gets smaller Muslims have more exposure to information not about some distant, nefarious "Arab" Islam, but the traditions of the local madhabs. This is why MUI et al. have been so vocal about Ahok's alleged blasphemy, not because they suddenly got a "Wahhabi" influence. They derive these traditions straight from Imam Shafi'i (Syafi'i in Indonesian), nobody's idea of an Islamic moderate and the founder of the very tradition that defines over 90% of all Indonesian Muslims.

The challenge isn't "Arab" Islam or radical "cultural practices" - the challenge is Islam itself.

 

[fastpitch17]

Don't worry about the Arabs. We have something much greater in our neighborhoods.

https://beritatribun.wordpress.com/...yang-keturunan-nabi-tapi-dijadikan-tersangka/

"King Salman when compared his purity, he only the tip of my fingernail, he just king arab, while I direct descendant of the prophet, the prophet bloody, and the lineage of the prophet clearly my holier than Salman" said Rizieq told reporters.

 

[Daniel50]

Habib an Arabic male name meaning "beloved". It would tend to make him more righteous, as at least partially descended from Arab. I went to Bekasi to visit someone about 2 weeks ago and I noticed a big poster there with Habib and 3 other males looking spiritual on the poster. Certainly he must be a direct descendant. I am almost sure he has more purity in his fingernail tip then any Arab King?

 

[Daniel50]

The challenge isn't "Arab" Islam or radical "cultural practices" - the challenge is Islam itself.

So what next?

 

[fastpitch17]

Hey Dan,

It's almost criminal the way the authorities just seem to be ignoring these guys.

Due mostly to its strategic location near Singapore and Malaysia, Batam has become a crossroads for Salafi adherents in the region, and its institutions point to a flourishing network that crosses national borders.

http://www.voanews.com/a/salafi-movement-grows-on-indonesias-batam-island/3764858.html

 

[Daniel50]

Hey Dan,

It's almost criminal the way the authorities just seem to be ignoring these guys.



http://www.voanews.com/a/salafi-movement-grows-on-indonesias-batam-island/3764858.html

This article reiterates a lot of what I have read and heard from different "moderate" Islamic voices. This article includes 2 professors from 2 different Indonesian Islamic universities. Also, the complicity of some gov't officials. Zulkifli, quoted in this article is head of the Batam agency of Indonesia's Religious Affairs Ministry. I can only see things getting worse but an increasing number of Indonesians see this as the right path. Especially with a gov't agency, or agencies, which are complicit at best in there desire to curb Salfism, and intolerance, to those outside this movement. An exert from the article:

Despite the potential tensions between Batam's vacation economy and rising numbers of Salafis, Zulkifli, for one, was not concerned."Sure, they are not tolerant, but… so what?" he said. "As of now, the Salafi movement is under control. We don't consider it to be a problem. Everyone is free to express themselves."
But some observers disagree about the impact of Salafism in Batam, and in Indonesia. Extremism is on the rise on the tiny island — just in 2016, the Batam Immigration Office rejected 418 passport applications from people suspected of intent to join the so-called Islamic State.
"The impact of Salafism is clearly seen in heightening the Islamism that has taken place since the fall of Soeharto," said Sunaworto Dema, a professor at UIN Yogyakarta."The power of Salafi radio's message lies in its targeted audience: secular university students and middle class society with no religious education. Local religious traditions, condemned as bid'a, are now severely challenged."
Reporting for this piece was supported by a grant from the Pulitzer Center for Crisis Reporting.

 

[Daniel50]

Pakistan asks Facebook to help it crack down on blasphemy on social media. It wants to lead the Muslim world in this effort. Another leading initiative....oh brother. Critics indicate this law is used to oppress minorities........go figure.



http://www.timesnow.tv/international/article/pak-asks-facebook-to-help-fight-blasphemy/57653