Foreigners rounded up to police station just to check documentations

[mauricio]

Police raided a cement factory because some people reported that there were foreign workers illegally working there. Police forcibly bring 14 foreigners found there to the police station to check their documentations (passport, KITAS, IMTA). Is it really necessary to bring them to the police station? They aren’t criminals, why can’t the police just do the checking on site? Why didn’t the police involve Imigrasi and Depnaker? If the police can do something like this, then any person can harass any foreigner just by making a police report based on mere suspicion of working without proper documentations.

http://makassar.tribunnews.com/2017/10/02/polres-barru-sidak-pt-conch-ini-yang-diperiksa

http://makassar.tribunnews.com/2017...a-di-mapolres-barru-ini-yang-ditemukan-polisi

 

[dafluff]

This is an overzealous mid-level officer who is overreaching. The police has no authority to check on immigration status without being asked by Imigrasi.

However, I'm sure nothing will come of it, especially since the workers appear to be Chinese factory workers.

 

[mauricio]

This is an overzealous mid-level officer who is overreaching. The police has no authority to check on immigration status without being asked by Imigrasi.

However, I'm sure nothing will come of it, especially since the workers appear to be Chinese factory workers.

I think the police can do this to the Chinese because they don't complain in the social media, at least not in Indonesian or English.

 

[steveandpenny]

sorry but that happens all the time now in the states.

 

[Davita]

sorry but that happens all the time now in the states.

I understood that USA Federal Law prevents local police for interfering in Immigration issues and have to report to ICE....
The 287(g) program, which gave trained local police Immigration authority, was thus curtailed in 2012. Trump is attempting to have it re-instated but I'm not sure that has yet happened.

from https://www.cnsnews.com/news/articl...-allowed-local-police-enforce-immigration-law

 

[steveandpenny]

It has ...in work places and schools and during traffic check points

 

[Davita]

Thanks S & P.
I hadn't read that the Trump administration had re-instated rule 287(g) of the Nationality Act but, if he has, then the Memorandum between the Homeland Security and each State Police Region has extremely serious requirements for the training of those police personnel. I read there are less than 2,000 police so far been trained....

"ICE provides a four-week basic training program and a one-week refresher training program (completed every two years) conducted by certified instructors at the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center (FLETC) ICE Academy (ICEA) in Charleston, SC."

I doubt if Indonesia has such requirements to enable any comparison.

https://www.ice.gov/doclib/287gMOA/r_287gazdeptofcorrections.pdf
https://www.ice.gov/287g

 

[mauricio]

It has ...in work places and schools and during traffic check points

But the police did not bring them to the station without first checking their papers (only those without proper documents are brought to the station). Here, the police take you to the station first (with or without looking at your papers) and talk later. Any legitimate foreigner will feel harassed and their rights violated. I think the police top brass should summon the overreaching mid-level officer.

 

[steveandpenny]

It's no different in the states where ice can round up all workers and taken to detention to prove there papers are legal. Oh ice is immigration police.

 

[steveandpenny]

Thanks S & P.
I hadn't read that the Trump administration had re-instated rule 287(g) of the Nationality Act but, if he has, then the Memorandum between the Homeland Security and each State Police Region has extremely serious requirements for the training of those police personnel. I read there are less than 2,000 police so far been trained....

"ICE provides a four-week basic training program and a one-week refresher training program (completed every two years) conducted by certified instructors at the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center (FLETC) ICE Academy (ICEA) in Charleston, SC."

I doubt if Indonesia has such requirements to enable any comparison.

https://www.ice.gov/doclib/287gMOA/r_287gazdeptofcorrections.pdf
https://www.ice.gov/287g

And it takes 1 year of training in the state of Calif to get licence to cut hair ...go figure.

 

[Davita]

It's no different in the states where ice can round up all workers and taken to detention to prove there papers are legal. Oh ice is immigration police.

There is a big difference in USA.
Federal Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) are trained in Immigration Law and are under The Dept. of Homeland Security.
State police aren't....unless authorised by rule 287(g)...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feder...tes#Department_of_Homeland_Security_.28DHS.29
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_police_(United_States)

Indonesian police are not trained in Immigration Law....nor its enforcement.

 

[Davita]

I talked with my in-laws, who are police officers, and they agree with Dafluff's comment of "overreaching' and that this officer was not complying with regulations. They said the police should only escort Imigrasi Officers, to ensure safety, when checking on foreigner's immigration documentation.

 

[atlantis]

The police has no authority to check on immigration status without being asked by Imigrasi.

I talked with my in-laws, who are police officers, and they agree with Dafluff's comment of "overreaching' and that this officer was not complying with regulations. They said the police should only escort Imigrasi Officers, to ensure safety, when checking on foreigner's immigration documentation.

I beg to differ. This is not correct. Since January 2017, thanks to Wiranto, the Satuan Tugas Pengawasan terhadap Orang Asing has been revived, in accordance with art. 13 & art. 15 UU 2 tahun 2002.

Since May 2011, POLRI has never accepted to be stripped off of their role of supervisation of the foreigners, role given by UU 6/2011 to Immigration with the creation of the PORA team. However the Police Act (UU 2/2002) has never been amended and the possibility for Police to have a direct active role was still very actual.

On January 2017 following a meeting with Wiranto, actual Coordinating Minister for Political, Legal and Security affairs, the SATGAS POA has been resurrected under the coordination of his ministry and with the supervisation of POLRI.

Wiranto has never accepted the creation of the PORA Team under the supervisation of DirJenIm. He has never ceased to denounce its ineffectiveness and, with the increase of cases of foreigners entering and working illegally in Indonesia, and the resurgence of terrorist threats, he didn't miss the opportunity.

Though we can argue on this specific case, it is wrong to say that Police had no right to DIRECTLY act on the case without informing or being accompanied by Immigration officers. I invite any police officer who would say otherwise to read my post and to check the declarations of both Wiranto and Komjen Pol Drs Syaffrudin, our Wakapolri, at the time of their announcement.
Here is what Syaffrudin was saying at the end of the meeting in January 2017: "Akan ada task force orang asing. Fungsi Pengawasan di Polri, koordinasi di bawah Menko Polhukam. Sudah lama enggak ada dari 2011, sekarang mau dibangkitkan lagi. Itu Keputusan rapat,"

 

[atlantis]

But anyway the (legal) intervention of POLRI without the assistance of the DitJenIm's TIMPORA largely predates Wiranto's official decision. Just for the record, I remember a Surat Ederan of Jaksa Agung (AGO) in 2014 or 2015 instructing all JPU in the archipelago to receive and prosecute all cases involving foreigners investigated by POLRI alone concerning Immigration violation. It was already a public disapproval of the results on the field of the TIM PORA. Legal basis was, again, art.13 UU 2/2002.

 

[Davita]

The setting-up of the Task Force in Jan 2017 included the following....
http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/...e-to-monitor-the-movement-of-foreigners-.html

Syafruddin said the police would now be involved in monitoring foreigners, but they would be under the coordination of the chief security office.

I've no idea what is the Chief Security Office....


.

 

[atlantis]

I've no idea what is the Chief Security Office....

That's what I said, Davita.
The Chief Security office is a poor translation by Jakarta Post of the Coordinating Minister for Political, Legal and Security affairs (Read, Wiranto).
The translation they made from Syafruddin comments is a pretty soft (and shortened) one. The original version is the one I gave: "Akan ada task force orang asing. Fungsi Pengawasan di Polri, koordinasi di bawah Menko Polhukam. Sudah lama enggak ada dari 2011, sekarang mau dibangkitkan lagi. Itu Keputusan rapat". It is a clear comment saying that from now on, POLRI will be part of the game and JakPost has attenuated a LOT of the tone it has when read and heard in its original version. It just means: "Enough, it's time for us to act".

For the record Menko Polkumham is the acronym for Menteri Koordinator bidang Politik, Hukum dan Keamanan, function held by Wiranto.

The main reproach which has been done to TIMPORA is that Immigration officers are in NO WAY investigators. Not only they don't have experience for that, but thay also have no training. This is the reason why the old ghost of the New Order POA has never been killed and has always been ready to be reactivated. Wiranto and Syafruddin did not hide the fact that the new SatGas would be very similar to the old POA.

Second reproach of importance made to DitJenIm was an obvious one: their lack of presence on the field.

For a whole province, in many areas of the archipelago, you have only one or at best 3 or 4 Immigration office covering a large territory. You don't need to have lived years in Indonesia to realize that there is a police precinct in every tiny sektor of a kabupaten. Who is best armed, prepared and organized to monitor foreigners?

Asking to DitJenIm to supervise the lot and to have immigration officers handling it and have an officer present anytime a simple verification in the bush had to be done was a nice dream, but it was just what it was: a dream and an unprepared one at best.

Let's be honest, the average KanIm requires more or less seven working days to prepare and set a field trip for a family interview for an ITAS sponsored istri/suami WNI and we would like them to mutate to supercops able to act on the spot whenever it is required? Yeah... dream on.

 

[atlantis]

To answer the OP, the case of PT Conch in Kabupaten Barru was perhaps a bit more complicate than what appears in the links provided. If I am not wrong about half of the 30 TKA allegedly didn't have the proper credential to be TKA, which in itself would be enough to justify the police investigation.
There was also, a few month before, allegations concerning the lack of ijin the company needed for some building and operations.

I have no idea concerning the conclusion of the investigation. Anyone?

 

[waarmstrong]

It has ...in work places and schools and during traffic check points

If such checks have happened, it is a pretty well kept secret. Such wholesale dragnets are, in fact, illegal. There are no "traffic checks" in the USA.

 

[waarmstrong]

It's no different in the states where ice can round up all workers and taken to detention to prove there papers are legal. Oh ice is immigration police.

This simply not the case. The authorities, including ICE, can not simply round up people and force them to prove they have done nothing wrong.

 

[steveandpenny]

If such checks have happened, it is a pretty well kept secret. Such wholesale dragnets are, in fact, illegal. There are no "traffic checks" in the USA.

You are very wrong on that ! They set up sobriety check points all the time. At these check points you must show drivers licence, registration, proof of insurance. Your car registration and drivers licence is run thought the data base. So don't tell me there are no traffic check points.