First major car accident in Indonesia

[Gratilla]

This happened right before 6pm, so right at Mahgrib or so, time period.

And also shift changeover time. The last thing a cop wants is paperwork cutting into his GF entertainment time. And don't the girls just love a uniform.

The rules (in an accident):
1) NEVER ADMIT LIABILITY.
2) KEEP COOL. The other side will invariably blame you and try to intimidate.
3) TAKE NOTES. Do this openly and don't explain what you're doing. They will ask, guaranteed. I did this on two occasions with cops and on both occasions their initial beligerence very quickly changed.
4) IF YOU HAVE A SMARTPHONE, RECORD AND TAKE PHOTOS. Again, don't explain what you're doing.
5) DON'T GET DRAWN INTO AN ARGUMENT. [Perhaps this should be No.3.]

 

[Jaime C]

I recorded the interactions between my wife and the shuttle driver, and between her and the Jasamarga policeman.

 

[Gratilla]

I recorded the interactions between my wife and the shuttle driver, and between her and the Jasamarga policeman.

Well done. So what do you need me for?

BTW, did you take a photo of the other driver? They really hate that!

 

[Jaime C]

Well done. So what do you need me for?

BTW, did you take a photo of the other driver? They really hate that!

I have a video of him. It was after 6pm, so a bit dark, unfortunately.

Mostly of them yelling at each other. As a Bule, I just tried to stay calm, and not get out and make a scene. I was afraid for my wife being close to traffic wooshing by a few feet away, and tried to keep her safe.

 

[vocalneal]

Sorry to hear about the accident. My advice is to install cameras front and rear, connected to a 'black box' recording device. Not too expensive and eliminates the lies and blame game in case of accident.

In any country in a rear end collision the car behind is in the wrong. Including "if you weren't here the accident wouldn't have happened" country.

She never changed lanes. She only slowed down considerably.

While the guy behind is still to blame one cannot simply drastically slow down on a multi-lane road without there being some consequence. The guy behind you might stop, and the guy behind him but the effect cascades as it gets further back and eventually.... Lane changing? Lane discipline is poor in most countries even, US is terrible , Thailand is terrible but one can pass on the left, Germany is still good. UK is getting worse

 

[jstar]

That's not completely true Neal. Obviously is a car moving back is excluded from that 'rule' (yes I know, in this case...).

But what's more important, is that there are certain exceptions in case of hitting the brakes. There have been law suits on which the following car was acquitted. You need to be able to prove there was a good reason to make that emergency stop. (The 'I brake for animals' stickers do not really apply anymore.)

And last but not least; many Indonesians strongly believe interfering with the traffic flow is not allowed. So I've seen cases in which stopping for an 'orange' lampu merah and thus creating an accident, was considered a traffic violation by the bystanders. Big discussions.

 

[vocalneal]

So I've seen cases in which stopping for an 'orange' lampu merah and thus creating an accident, was considered a traffic violation by the bystanders. Big discussions.

Have to agree with that.

 

[El_Goretto]

And last but not least; many Indonesians strongly believe interfering with the traffic flow is not allowed.

Unless you're not Indonesian. Doesn't matter what you're always at fault.

Had an accident where a car from the opposite lane did a u-turn and forced me to slam the brakes to avoid hitting him. He stopped half way through my lane. I hit the horn so hard he let me pass but as I did he hit the back right of my car.

Despite having dash cam evidence of all it AND being clearly hit from the rear, they still blamed me and wouldn't back down. Eventually a cop came, told us if we can't find an agreement we would go to courts and vehicles would be held until judgment.

In the end I let it go.

So I guess I was "lucky" to not have to pay for the other driver cutting me off and hitting my car.

Oh and of course I got the "but it's no big deal you drive a fortuner, you're rich".

 

[jstar]

Yep, same here @El_Goretto . I'm always the culprit, traffic rules and common sense don't seem to apply when I'm involved. And people are so amazingly gullible and mob law is easy to ignite. It really takes all the (little) fun out of driving. [/RANT] Hopefully Jaime won't be confronted with that.

 

[Gratilla]

Unless you're not Indonesian. Doesn't matter what you're always at fault.

I can state absolutely categorically that this is NOT the case.

1) Had an incident with a cop car. The short version is that they came shooting out of a blind bend at 50 kph. Me, being familiar with the road was creeping along at 5 kph. Our wing mirrors kissed. Me, driving a Panther (new, but not as flash as a Fortuner) suffered nary a scratch. They, had their wing mirror ripped off and scattered along the road. Me, stopping, getting out of the car and miming astonishment at a car miraculously appearing from nowhere. They, went into a huddle to discuss what to do, checked all OK and drove off. Me, convinced that if I'd chewed them out for stupidity would have been arrested for something.

2) Daan Mogot, early morning, all lanes creeping along at 5 kph. Moron, cutting lanes, scraped my offside and moved on as though nothing had happened. Me, followed him eventually out of the traffic and into a mall parking lot. Miracle of miracles two cops appear to who(m) I explained the situation making issue of the fact that he had not stopped after an accident. The cops seemed to take this seriously and demanded to know of the other driver how I was to be compensated. All he had was Rp150k, which the cops passed on to me asking if it was sufficient to cover the damage. Me, agreed it was and attempted to thank one of the cops with a couple of blue notes. He refused to accept saying he did n't believe in corruption. I KID YOU NOT. And would be willing to swear to this on a stack of Bibles (with a Koran slipped in if you insist).

I also swear that I am not Indonesian and look like an obvious bule cross between George Clooney and Perry Mason!

 

[jstar]

So you say it's my look, a cross between Travis Fimmel and Chris Hemsworth, and @El_Goretto looking a mix between Fabian Schär and a young Alain Delon, that makes us being targeted? Okay.

But seriously, the examples you gave involved cops. And especially in Jakarta, they did clean up their act quite a bit. Now obviously they (should) know the rules. But in both examples it seems they were more eager to please you or avoid conflicts (because of your looks?) than applying the rules. So they act neutral (as in El_G's case) but that doesn't mean they do the right thing.

I even got the blame when we were politely waiting in the car to take a turn and a motorcycle driver (who was obviously night blind and crossing the road) fully hit the side of the car and got catapulted. The bystanders were even complaining about the bule for driving a black car! And yes, I was expected by everybody to compensate the damages*, no cop in sight.


* in most European countries this is also the case, the insurance of the car will pay for the damages of the 'weak' traffic users, independent of guilt.

 

[El_Goretto]

and @El_Goretto looking a mix between Fabian Schär and a young Alain Delon

Hahaha! If only!

 

[William King]

Bule at fault myth.

I've been in 3 accidents here, never blamed.

One time in Bintaro bike hit me nobody paid.

Second time in Pandeglang car on wrong side of road sideswipped me to avoid a truck. went to police station, police made him pay.

Third time near Halim airport, hit from behind while stationary at a red light. No damage, other fella apologised profusely.

 

[Anglian]

I had a mishap a Lebak Bulas, I was looking in my rear view mirror I collided with a Chinese gent who just pulled out in front of me, he immediately demanded 600,000rp before I had a chance to blame him, a man in the crowd came up to me and said “Do you want us to beat him up” I said “ No” but the other driver must have heard it, leapt into his car and drove off, end of story,

My other mishap is in another thread, so I’m not repeating it, but bules aren’t always in trouble

 

[jstar]

Bule at fault myth.

.......

.......went to police station, police made him pay.

Now this is rather contradictory. (So somebody makes a huge mistake and creates an accident, doesn't want to take the blame, then you leave out what happened; didn't he blame you? What was his rationale for not agreeing to cover the damage?)

NB: Also, it proves (again and again and again and ....) it is all very subjective. A policeman can obviously officially not make somebody pay another civilian, they are no judges. And if it's unclear they need to confiscate the vehicles until after the report. That's also the problem if there's no mandatory insurance.

 

[jstar]

.... I was looking in my rear view mirror I collided with a Chinese gent who just pulled out in front of me, he immediately demanded 600,000rp before I had a chance to blame him, a man in the crowd came up to me and said “Do you want us to beat him up” I said “ No” but the other driver must have heard it, leapt into his car and drove off, end of story,

You got 'lucky' they hated Chinese more...

 

[Anglian]

You got 'lucky' they hated Chinese more...

Yes, I had that impression

 

[Gratilla]

But seriously, the examples you gave involved cops.

OK, here's a true story w/o cops.

In the days before maps and road signs, decided to drive down to Ujung Genteng, on the south coast, with my SO. Halfway there needed directions. Passed a Pos Ojek with inhabitants. Started backing up to ask directions and CRRRRUNCHCH!

Knocked down a motobike. Brake on, ignition off and got out of the car. Mob had already formed together with load-mouthed leader lacking only a ten inch scar on his left cheek and his not-much-better sidekick demanding big bucks for writing off the MB.

No way am I negotiating with this moron.

Walked towards him and asked if he was the owner of the bike. Negative. Sidekick? Same. Asked where the owner was and a little guy who had been pushed to the back of the crowd came forward nervously, not looking forward to a one-on-one with a six one (1.86m, 186cm, 1860mm) <handsome!> bule.

I smiled, beckoned him forward and waved off the crowd. Had a private chat where he admitted the damage was largely cosmetic together with a bent wing mirror support. 20k max at the local bengkel or he could bend back the support himself. Handed him a 50, which he was happy with, exchanged smiles and off we went in the direction indicated.

Lessons? Keep cool, don't argue, take charge with a positive no-nonsense body language.

Learned all this from Cesar Milan's dog-training programs. He's the man, an absolute genius.

 

[atlantis]

But what's more important, is that there are certain exceptions in case of hitting the brakes. .

Exactly, and there are provisions on the Indonesian Law for that. I had the owner and driver of a public passenger vehicle that one of our car hit on the rear end pay ALL our damages. Driver just stopped unexpectedly on the middle of the lane, without any signal (rear lamps were dead) other than to pick up passengers. Not even an effort to signal and park. Just full stop. This is a gross traffic violation and it didn't take me long to get the cops and driver admitting it.

 

[atlantis]

I can state absolutely categorically that this is NOT the case.

I concur to that.
The "bule is always wrong" is a myth.

I will copy paste what Gratilla has written earlier, which is a good start to avoid being this "bule who is always wrong". I have bolded what are the most important imho.

1) NEVER ADMIT LIABILITY.
2) KEEP COOL. The other side will invariably blame you and try to intimidate.
3) TAKE NOTES. Do this openly and don't explain what you're doing. They will ask, guaranteed. I did this on two occasions with cops and on both occasions their initial beligerence very quickly changed.
4) IF YOU HAVE A SMARTPHONE, RECORD AND TAKE PHOTOS. Again, don't explain what you're doing.
5) DON'T GET DRAWN INTO AN ARGUMENT

Most importantly do not be contemptuous in the tone or choice of words, and this even in front of the most ridiculous assertions. I understand that many of us don't want to be contemptuous/arrogant but having heard quite a few of them involved in an accident and talking about it, they ARE/WERE.

One of the reason why some of us can't get their right respected is perhaps because they are too rigid and have hard time to deal with Indonesian and the way they "negotiate".

Most people here struggle for a living and in the case of an accident, if they see/feel that the other party involved is rich (bule qualifies, as well as any Indonesian which are remotely suspected to be richer than them), they will almost systematically try to shift the blame on him and have him pay, even if they are fully aware that this is 100% their fault. This is despicable, but dealing with it by being contemptuous, arrogant or loosing one's temper will not do any good.

I have always been curious to understand why some of us have troubles like "always being wrong" or "being overcharged" and some not. There are certainly no short answer, and it certainly not a case of some being smarter than others, but it very certainly is a case of some being smoother than others.