INFORMATION AND COMMUNITY FOR EXPATS IN INDONESIA
DON'T PANIC.... well, maybe a little bit.
- Thread starter harryopal1
- Start date
If you let any kids wander around in your car, or not using seatbelts, you dont need the government to tell you that it's wrong, you should handle yourselve.. Completely different topic.
Closing the beaches is absurd. People need to walk in fresh air, a little breeze...
It's not like swarms of viruses are hovering above the beach waiting to dive on innocent victims....
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So, do people just teleport to the beach a la Star Trek, or do they use the streets and crowd public transportation on the way there and back?
The virus doesn’t come from the beach air, it comes from the guy next to you at the beach, if everybody is allowed to be there.
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Sometimes, one just follows the rules even when those rules make no sense. I wear a mask while riding my bicycle to school because the rules say to do so. By now, most people are aware that outdoor transmission basically does not exist, and I am hella vaccinated, but I am willing to follow rules - especially because I do not want to look like the arrogant bule who thinks that the rules do not apply to him.
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It seems Yogyakarta is having a tough time:
Thankfully my local beach ,10 mins by scooter ,is open and almost empty , safe and good for snorkeling .
In Bali where I am now, beaches are closed but streets are with of people, hanging around. On the beach, there is a sign that the beach is closed but many people, locals, and foreigners, and some of them swimming (locals mostly).
The problem is that since the beginning no one in the government listened to scientists, and no unified message was formed. So all the little regional governments have to make up their own rules. Closing large public areas is silly, but with the absence of proper guidance, it's just reactive stuff now. Other silly things include curfews (does the virus work at night only?), restricting business hours (virus can't tell time), and one city in Java even went so far as to turn off street lights (umm...virus is afraid of the dark?).
Really, all this is symptomatic of much greater dysfunction in government.
Really, all this is symptomatic of much greater dysfunction in government.
Ya i read sanur kuta and batubulong are closed .
Proof number #53,461 that vaccines work:
150 vs 18,000
www.forbes.com
150 vs 18,000
99.5% Of People Killed By Covid In Last 6 Months Were Unvaccinated, Data Suggests
CDC Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky has emphasized nearly every Covid-19 death is now preventable.
www.forbes.com
I can walk to the beach in 10 minutes. And this is not Monte Carlo beach, it's not like people are sitting 50 cm apart from each other. It's not Finns beachclub if you see what I mean ...
Beach closure is silly.
Same as riding in YOUR car with a mask. Silly.
Now, riding the subway, the bus, yes then the masks make sense.
As somebody mentioned, I try avoid looking like the arrogant bule, so I do a bit of figuration with the mask.
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An interesting article on curfews:
Do Curfews Work?
I often recommend people set their mental compass to search for the scientific consensus on an issue. This is great in theory but this consensus is often an intangible idea. Where do you find it when it exists? How do you recognize it? You may trust that respectable media outlets will choose to...
www.mcgill.ca
Hahaha, "in the last 6 months" ...... of course mass vacination started when ?Proof number #53,461 that vaccines work:
150 vs 18,000
99.5% Of People Killed By Covid In Last 6 Months Were Unvaccinated, Data Suggests
CDC Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky has emphasized nearly every Covid-19 death is now preventable.
About 7 months ago? I don't think you're making the point you think you're making.
I do think the reason for extreme measures (beach closing, etc) sometimes or often times because at least in this country, people can't just follow even stern (but without consequences) suggestion....in a perfect world..say for example the beach is open but it's gated, and people who can enter are the ones who are vaccinated, and/or picnic areas are separated at least a few meters, etc. again i know I'm oversimplifying...like for example, there is one road near Jalan Angkasa (by the immigration office), there is a special road painted in red with a sign that says says no motor, just bus only for transjakarta...and everyday I passed the area, many motorcycles pretty much use that road freely. Next time I saw it...it was already cemented, with nice raised ground with some plants on it.
And next step is a beach separation according to religion ? Or to skin color ?
At the Post Office a counter for vaccinated, and one for non vacinated ?
Are you realizing what you're suggesting ?
There is a name for that : "apartheid" ....
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I think having beaches open encourages people to travel from home to the beach- making a non-essential journey, potentially having to use public facilities therefore risking further unnecessary exposure to the virus.
& I guess this is what they would say as the reason why if asked.
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Time to point on the tin foiled hats, get your beverages ready for the time machine, and get ready for some random thoughts and a story or two.
Even back in Jan 2020, I had a feeling everything would a mess for maybe 2 years. I have a feeling it is going to be even longer.
-Despite covid cases popping up all around Indonesia, it was 'No. No covid here' over and over. Wash your hands, pray, and wear a special amulat was the general response until the middle of March 2020 when PSBB was announced. One of the early issues was just extending it by a week or two at a time. It should have been, 'we are going to PSBB until June/July. Then we will evaluate things'. The first few months of PSBB in general were okay, but they probably ended it too early. August/Sept might have been the ideal time to pause and reevaluate. During this time, the government should have been talking with other governments to see what was and wasn't working.
-Oct-Dec 2020 when the second wave occurred and was the reason for quarantine, entry restrictions. You had demos in Oct and then he who shall not be named returned from exile in Nov which lead to the second wave. Also this is when the British variant came up. This has been downplayed and forgotten about.
-How the vaccine have been rolled out. it has been a mess and no clear direction. If you read some of the posts in this thread and the 'First Jab Done' thread, some people were told one thing, but when they show up, they are told something else. After making the vaccine available for the essential workers/high risk(healthcare, elderly, police, military), it should have opened up where anyone who wants to get the vaccine can. I got lucky I got the vaccine when I did as a number of other people I know who want the vaccine have struggled to get it. Some have had to use their connections to get a vaccine. For every drive through PCR/Antigen test, there should be a vaccine drive through. There was talk about a herb immunity, but there have been a few jokes about it taking 5+ years for this to happen. It is going to take longer than what was originally planned.
-The third wave: where we are now. Could this have been avoided? I personally don't think so. Another new variant popped up and people started getting sick. Rather than take responsibility, shipping containers from India were blamed to save face. Even now, this is being downplayed as the second wave and previously, the numbers that were being reported are probably less than what they really are. Even if you travel around to different places in Indonesia, you see different attitudes on covid in general.
I don't think the government is fully at fault as a number of places that were open did not follow the protocols set in place. Some of those places would put a sticker over the camera on your phone and would warn you not to take pictures(so they wouldn't get caught). Others didn't care including one place that when I asked them if they were even following the health protocols, they said they were. They weren't. This was in an argument because they wouldn't let me because I wasn't wearing the correct attire of clothing per their regulation. They were actually fined and forced to be closed down for a number of days after they got busted(not sure how they got caught, but I laughed when I heard the news). The new entry restrictions into Indonesia to me seem too little, too late.
People want to go back to normal and get on with their lives. I don't have a problem with this and agree with it to a degree. At what point do we say we just need to get on with life, treat covid like the flu, and keep going or worry when a new variant pops up. There do need to be some protocols in place to help create a balance. No matter what is decided, you are going to have people who are pissed off. Also depending on what direction covid goes, this could cause a shift in some laws/create emergency power(say allowing Jokowi to stay on as president for example).
If you have read this far, thank you. I know it seems like complete rambling, but I had no idea where to post my random thoughts. Please be sure to recycle the tin foil hats in the bin on the right as you exit this post. There is also a sink with soap, hand sanitizer, whisky(hand sanitizer for your insides), and BA has set up some to go boxes. Limit to one per person.
Even back in Jan 2020, I had a feeling everything would a mess for maybe 2 years. I have a feeling it is going to be even longer.
-Despite covid cases popping up all around Indonesia, it was 'No. No covid here' over and over. Wash your hands, pray, and wear a special amulat was the general response until the middle of March 2020 when PSBB was announced. One of the early issues was just extending it by a week or two at a time. It should have been, 'we are going to PSBB until June/July. Then we will evaluate things'. The first few months of PSBB in general were okay, but they probably ended it too early. August/Sept might have been the ideal time to pause and reevaluate. During this time, the government should have been talking with other governments to see what was and wasn't working.
-Oct-Dec 2020 when the second wave occurred and was the reason for quarantine, entry restrictions. You had demos in Oct and then he who shall not be named returned from exile in Nov which lead to the second wave. Also this is when the British variant came up. This has been downplayed and forgotten about.
-How the vaccine have been rolled out. it has been a mess and no clear direction. If you read some of the posts in this thread and the 'First Jab Done' thread, some people were told one thing, but when they show up, they are told something else. After making the vaccine available for the essential workers/high risk(healthcare, elderly, police, military), it should have opened up where anyone who wants to get the vaccine can. I got lucky I got the vaccine when I did as a number of other people I know who want the vaccine have struggled to get it. Some have had to use their connections to get a vaccine. For every drive through PCR/Antigen test, there should be a vaccine drive through. There was talk about a herb immunity, but there have been a few jokes about it taking 5+ years for this to happen. It is going to take longer than what was originally planned.
-The third wave: where we are now. Could this have been avoided? I personally don't think so. Another new variant popped up and people started getting sick. Rather than take responsibility, shipping containers from India were blamed to save face. Even now, this is being downplayed as the second wave and previously, the numbers that were being reported are probably less than what they really are. Even if you travel around to different places in Indonesia, you see different attitudes on covid in general.
I don't think the government is fully at fault as a number of places that were open did not follow the protocols set in place. Some of those places would put a sticker over the camera on your phone and would warn you not to take pictures(so they wouldn't get caught). Others didn't care including one place that when I asked them if they were even following the health protocols, they said they were. They weren't. This was in an argument because they wouldn't let me because I wasn't wearing the correct attire of clothing per their regulation. They were actually fined and forced to be closed down for a number of days after they got busted(not sure how they got caught, but I laughed when I heard the news). The new entry restrictions into Indonesia to me seem too little, too late.
People want to go back to normal and get on with their lives. I don't have a problem with this and agree with it to a degree. At what point do we say we just need to get on with life, treat covid like the flu, and keep going or worry when a new variant pops up. There do need to be some protocols in place to help create a balance. No matter what is decided, you are going to have people who are pissed off. Also depending on what direction covid goes, this could cause a shift in some laws/create emergency power(say allowing Jokowi to stay on as president for example).
If you have read this far, thank you. I know it seems like complete rambling, but I had no idea where to post my random thoughts. Please be sure to recycle the tin foil hats in the bin on the right as you exit this post. There is also a sink with soap, hand sanitizer, whisky(hand sanitizer for your insides), and BA has set up some to go boxes. Limit to one per person.
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- Jul 17, 2016
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Discrimination based on behavior is acceptable, and if it’s based on performance it is usually justifiable.
Vaccination record has always been a requirement here in USA for public schools, at least in all the states I know. If your kid is not vaccinated, she’s not mingling with a class full of other kids.
You can’t change your skin color or your gender, and you typically inherit your religion. Discrimination based on these traits are unacceptable.
You can be discriminated based on what you do (or fail to do), but not on what you are.
Being put in jail is discrimination, but it’s justifiable because you’re only put in that situation if you do something (break the law). If you don’t want to go to jail, don’t do the crime. Requiring a job applicant to have a university degree is discrimination, but it’s ok because you too can go to university. Allowing top employees to get Rp 200 million salary a month while the bottom one get Rp 5 million is discrimination, but it’s fine because the directors have more experience and higher skill gained over the years.
Discrimination based on refusal to dress modestly in a temple or refusal to be vaccinated is acceptable. If you do the wrong thing and receive negative consequence for it, it’s not discrimination, it’s justice.
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