DON'T PANIC.... well, maybe a little bit.

Burungkecil

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Unfortunately that's not the case where I am.

We got a tip off on Friday from our Pak RT that vaccinations were being offered to Jakarta residents at our local Polsek in East Jakarta on Saturday morning. We got there at 6:15 am to register but were told that I didn't qualify.
I showed them my KTP (orang asing), my Kartu Keluarga, my KITAP, my NPWP and my BPJS card but still they refused.

So I hunted down Ibu Kapolsek to clarify things but she only said that she had also rejected four Koreans at a similar event the day before despite them bringing documents along, adding that unless her superior instructed her that WNI are included in the programme she couldn't allow it.
 

yantiharun1

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More news on the Sinovac vaccine:

Indonesia tracked 25,374 health workers in Jakarta for 28 days after their second dose.
It protected:
100% from death
96% from hospitalization
94% against (symptomatic?) infection

The article didn't break down the numbers and 28-days is a short time, but good news nonetheless!

Do you know if Sinovac vaccine acceptable when entering US?
 

centurion

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You are spreading panic. The benefit outweighs the risk.
Follow the science, like other forum members who finished one-hour internet courses in virology and are now vaccine experts.
 

HappyMan

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You are spreading panic. The benefit outweighs the risk.
Follow the science, like other forum members who finished one-hour internet courses in virology and are now vaccine experts.
The conspiracy theorists of the world started off the pandemic alternating between denying that Covid even existed and insisting that it was a planned attempt to make everyone sick so that secret groups could take over the world. Those ideas were pretty clearly incorrect.
Now, when the people of the world are so close to making it out of these dark times, they are suggesting that people not take the vaccine that will allow us to return to normal life... I would expect that at some point one would realize that one was really shit at understanding the world, predicting the future and just generally giving advice, and would shut the hell up. But this doesn't seem to happen.

Here are a couple of interesting podcast offerings from economist Tim Harford: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p09d7jvk This first one is about some of the the other (much larger) medical risks that people willingly endure and why they are deemed acceptable.

https://politics-on-the-couch.zencast.website/episodes/7 The second is more generally about behavioural economics and discusses why stories like "Joe Frank, a 27 year old father of three, died after having a blood clot last night" can have a much greater effect on our thoughts than "20,000 dead to coronaviras in the last week".
 
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centurion

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"Joe Frank, a 27 year old father of three, died after having a blood clot last night" can have a much greater effect on our thoughts than "20,000 dead to coronaviras in the last week".
It is a news because If Joe took Sinovac or Sinopharm, he would be still alive.
 
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ChrisTex

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You are spreading panic. The benefit outweighs the risk.
Follow the science, like other forum members who finished one-hour internet courses in virology and are now vaccine experts.

I didn't complete that course. I became an expert through WebMD.
 

HappyMan

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It is a news because If Joe took Sinovac or Sinopharm, he would be still alive.
Perhaps, but the point that is missing in your statement is that if no people opt to take AstraZeneca, then there will be x number of deaths from people who got Covid while waiting for an alternative vaccine. Statistics say that x number of deaths will be higher than the number of deaths we could expect from clots.

Joe's story has a disproportionate effect (meaning it effects people's minds more than would a story of 2,000 people dying while waiting for their preferred vaccine) because we can "understand" him as an individual. We emote. "2,000 people" is not something with which we can emote, not something that we can fully "understand" (even though those are actually 2,000 Joes). So, we ignore the logical decision and end up reacting to Joe's story.

That is the nutshell version of part of the second podcast linked.
 

centurion

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I
Perhaps, but the point that is missing in your statement is that if no people opt to take AstraZeneca, then there will be x number of deaths from people who got Covid while waiting for an alternative vaccine. Statistics say that x number of deaths will be higher than the number of deaths we could expect from clots.

Joe's story has a disproportionate effect (meaning it effects people's minds more than would a story of 2,000 people dying while waiting for their preferred vaccine) because we can "understand" him as an individual. We emote. "2,000 people" is not something with which we can emote, not something that we can fully "understand" (even though those are actually 2,000 Joes). So, we ignore the logical decision and end up reacting to Joe's story.

That is the nutshell version of part of the second podcast linked.
I think partially true. This is not about biases in investing in the stock exchange and perceived losses, but about of risk of dying from covid and about vaccines that should cure people, but sometimes could bring additional, although marginal, risk of dying.

This is augmented with explanations from experts and "experts", claiming everything is safe (maybe from good intentions to immunize the whole population faster) not explaining the risks and when found that some vaccine is not safe as said (AZ, JJ), the confidence in expert opinion diminishes.

Especially in countries like Indonesia, and also abroad, there is no education to the general public on how to recognize i.e. blood cloth symptoms, and even if you would recognize them who knows would the doctor know to treat these symptoms.
 

Burungkecil

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Oof. That sucks. Did you get a chance to talk to her boss?


Unfortunately, she was the boss🙂

On Monday I tried a different vaccination centre, one in Ciracas that was advertised as being open to all DKI residents but that descended into a farce as there were a couple of hundred people like myself who had turned up to register on the day but it turned out that the organisers had switched to online registration less than 24 hours earlier.
Anyway, it was a case of third time lucky because I got vaccinated at a local hospital this morning. Turned up just before 6am because I heard only 200 doses were available to find about 40 people already queuing.

I was number 45 in the system and got registered, screened and vaccinated within an hour of staff arriving. Very efficient.
Nine hours later and feeling a bit sleepy but that's all.
 

Balifrog

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This obsession to be vaccinated is something that I dont get..
I mean, is it going to save your life ? Is it going to make travelling easier ?
Nope, one still has to go through all the testing, mask, and distancing B.S.
I used to travel regulary to our Java "jungle home" before this paranoia, now the Missus goes alone. I absolutely reject all this BS.

And yep, same as others, I haven't seen my kids (21/22/26) since 18 months.
Anyway, off to the pub for a beer ! I survived plenty stuff till now, and I am not gonna change my livestyle.
Note : I am not conspirationnist, not anti vax, but just I love my freedom, and as long I can walk it wont.change.
 

Helpful Herbert

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I mean, is it going to save your life ?

I think that is the main reason people get it. Who wants to catch it and be relying on Indonesian medical care to save your life? So yes if it reduces your risk of dying from Covid by 95%, and your risk of catching it by 70%, then it is worthwhile getting the vaccine. Of course it doesn't help with all the other restrictions, as you correctly mention.
 

macvert

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Well, I don't want to get the virus for a start & if I do get it, whether I survive or not, I don't want to be responsible for giving it to some other old bastard / bitch who dies from it.
 

ChrisTex

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I got it as it has now become a requirement for work if I want to keep my job. If I need it to travel, great I have it.
 

Bad_azz

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Hubby informs me that PSBB is in effect in Bandung now due to spikes in cases & it being a Red Zone
Some info in the links, basically don't come here unless you have to:

 

Balifrog

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As you
I think that is the main reason people get it. Who wants to catch it and be relying on Indonesian medical care to save your life? So yes if it reduces your risk of dying from Covid by 95%, and your risk of catching it by 70%, then it is worthwhile getting the vaccine. Of course it doesn't help with all the other restrictions, as you correctly mention.
As you are in maths, you sure know that the chance to catch it is minimal, and the chance of dying of it is like 0,03% ?
 

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