DON'T PANIC.... well, maybe a little bit.

[dafluff]

Dr John Campbell, whose Covid-19 videos are very popular on Youtube, mentions the Indonesian research paper that linked Vitamin D deficiency with vastly increased mortality.

 

[dafluff]

Dr John Campbell, whose Covid-19 videos are very popular on Youtube, mentions the Indonesian research paper that linked Vitamin D deficiency with vastly increased mortality.

I really hope the Vit D effect is as strong as suggested here. It would be nothing short of amazing if a key to end the pandemic is something that is available for very cheap or in a lot of cases, free. It might be the only hope really for countries like Indonesia.

 

[R Cameron]

@dafluff Indeed that Indonesian study does have more compelling numbers. If Vitamin D does prove to be crucial, it is ironic that large populations worldwide are being told to stay inside. I find ways to frequently get outside while still respecting social distancing.

While Imigrasi tells us:

"Reminder: You have to stay indoors."

"Reminder: No outdoor activities."

 

[dafluff]

@dafluff Indeed that Indonesian study does have more compelling numbers. If Vitamin D does prove to be crucial, it is ironic that large populations worldwide are being told to stay inside. I find ways to frequently get outside while still respecting social distancing.

While Imigrasi tells us:

Yeah, these stay indoor guidelines have to be revised. It's not the outdoors that's potentially infectious, it's close contact with other people. As long as you can keep reasonably apart, closing parks, beaches etc is ridiculous.

 

[gemima]

I really hope the Vit D effect is as strong as suggested here. It would be nothing short of amazing if a key to end the pandemic is something that is available for very cheap or in a lot of cases, free. It might be the only hope really for countries like Indonesia.

The thing I dont understand about the Vit D case is that a lot of indonesians probably dont have high levels of the stuff - all the women nearly completely covered and mostly staying at home for instance. It would be interesting to look at general vitamin D levels in the population in Indonesia (factoring in hijab usage).
One critique of the articles measuring vitamin D is that apparently illnesses like COVID-19 deplete vitamin D stores in the body so they might just be measuring this impact (I have no idea if that is the case and honestly havent read enough about it to understand or have an opinion on this).
Vitamin D is important for many other reasons so its good advice for everyone to ensure they get enought of the stuff from sun/ supplementation if sun isnt an option!

 

[fastpitch17]

Yeah, these stay indoor guidelines have to be revised. It's not the outdoors that's potentially infectious, it's close contact with other people. As long as you can keep reasonably apart, closing parks, beaches etc is ridiculous.

That's the problem now, isn't it? So many that just don't care about you or anyone else around them.

 

[dafluff]

Very recent news out of the US is that Covid-19 causes blood clots (thrombosis), and researchers recommend giving patients blood thinners.

Among patients placed on ventilators, nearly 63% of those who weren't treated with blood thinners died, compared with 29% of those who were given the drugs, the researchers reported. Among patients on ventilators who died, those who didn't receive blood thinners died after nine days, while those given the drugs died after 21 days.

https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2020-05-06/covid-19-tied-to-blood-clots-blood-thinners-could-boost-survival

But guess what? Vitamin D is a blood thinner! So this may yet be another mechanism by which Vit D is beneficial against Covid-19.

 

[centurion]

Tumeric (curcuma) used in jamu drinks is also effective blood thinner as well, especially if combined with black pepper (improving curcuma absorption in the body 1000x).

 

[vocalneal]

Going for a Hash rece today in the midday sun. Should get lots of Vit. D? And Vitamin Bintang (Tiger)!

 

[centurion]

Going for a Hash rece today in the midday sun. Should get lots of Vit. D? And Vitamin Bintang (Tiger)!

Vitamin B12

 

[Bad_azz]

I may have mentioned this before- BUT I shall say it again...
Why not open up drive through testing on parts of the (now almost empty ) toll roads.
As soon as I saw SK was doing drive thru testing this idea sprang to mind.
They could easily channel cars through it is set up to do this anyway.. the medic/tester could use the toll booth as their protected area with a screen set up, it is outdoors so had lots of ventilation, where is the downside to this?
A fee could be added to the toll fee for the test - IF they say it isn't cost effective, I am pretty sure many would pay something- I have no idea how much that fee could/should be- or even if it should be free. (in my mind I think 500rb would be fair and attainable for many- though this is an aside to my main point & just me thinking aloud of things that may be thrown into the mix as a negative reaction to the idea)
* I am aware that this would really only target car/truck drivers/passengers, but that is a start.
I guess parts of the smaller toll roads in certain places could be opened up for motorcyclists - if they drive thru then pull a u-turn and drive out again...
when I think of this I am visualising the toll Pasteur - Bandung & the nice empty toll that runs from Jaksel to Depok as 2 that I am familiar with.
Someone really should suggest this to those who make such decisions.
Unless I missed something crucial- please tell me, always happy to be educated.

 

[dafluff]

@dafluff Indeed that Indonesian study does have more compelling numbers. If Vitamin D does prove to be crucial, it is ironic that large populations worldwide are being told to stay inside. I find ways to frequently get outside while still respecting social distancing.

While Imigrasi tells us:

There are a few critiques on the Indonesian paper. For example, the researcher is based in a hospital in Kalimantan. Did they really get access to 780 patients across Indonesia? Kalimantan doesn't have that many official cases in total, so did they have access to other hospitals in Indonesia? Did all those patients really get a Vit D test? This seems like it would take a lot of meticulous record keeping, and my experience with Indonesia in general precludes such a thing.

It doesn't record when the test was done, was it at admission? During? After discharge? As pointed out by @gemima there could be a mechanism where Covid-19 depletes Vit D levels, so finding out when the Vit D was evaluated is important.

 

[scouser59]

I may have mentioned this before- BUT I shall say it again...
Why not open up drive through testing on parts of the (now almost empty ) toll roads.
As soon as I saw SK was doing drive thru testing this idea sprang to mind.
They could easily channel cars through it is set up to do this anyway.. the medic/tester could use the toll booth as their protected area with a screen set up, it is outdoors so had lots of ventilation, where is the downside to this?
A fee could be added to the toll fee for the test - IF they say it isn't cost effective, I am pretty sure many would pay something- I have no idea how much that fee could/should be- or even if it should be free. (in my mind I think 500rb would be fair and attainable for many- though this is an aside to my main point & just me thinking aloud of things that may be thrown into the mix as a negative reaction to the idea)
* I am aware that this would really only target car/truck drivers/passengers, but that is a start.
I guess parts of the smaller toll roads in certain places could be opened up for motorcyclists - if they drive thru then pull a u-turn and drive out again...
when I think of this I am visualising the toll Pasteur - Bandung & the nice empty toll that runs from Jaksel to Depok as 2 that I am familiar with.
Someone really should suggest this to those who make such decisions.
Unless I missed something crucial- please tell me, always happy to be educated.

As I understand things here , rapid test here is not so reliable and the antibody test is next to useless at the moment ,I am sure in the future things will improve re test performance .
COVID-19: Indonesia to administer more PCR tests ...

 

[Bad_azz]

As I understand things here , rapid test here is not so reliable and the antibody test is next to useless at the moment ,I am sure in the future things will improve re test performance .
COVID-19: Indonesia to administer more PCR tests ...

But hopefully it will be soon enough, so why not have measures in place for when it is, also no need for it to be rapid testing, they could swab people & then give each on an ID number & a place to contact for the results- I am not so much interested in the actual tests- I am thinking of the logistics of administering these tests- or indeed vaccines IF they ever get one.

 

[Vulgarian]

But hopefully it will be soon enough, so why not have measures in place for when it is, also no need for it to be rapid testing, they could swab people & then give each on an ID number & a place to contact for the results- I am not so much interested in the actual tests- I am thinking of the logistics of administering these tests- or indeed vaccines IF they ever get one.

There already is drive-through testing in a number of places. Here's an example from West Jakarta - https://jakartaglobe.id/vision/drivethru-covid19-testing-in-west-jakarta

 

[centurion]

There are a few critiques on the Indonesian paper. For example, the researcher is based in a hospital in Kalimantan. Did they really get access to 780 patients across Indonesia? Kalimantan doesn't have that many official cases in total, so did they have access to other hospitals in Indonesia? Did all those patients really get a Vit D test? This seems like it would take a lot of meticulous record keeping, and my experience with Indonesia in general precludes such a thing.

It doesn't record when the test was done, was it at admission? During? After discharge? As pointed out by @gemima there could be a mechanism where Covid-19 depletes Vit D levels, so finding out when the Vit D was evaluated is important.

The paper says that they analyzed the cases across Indonesia, not in Kalimantan exclusively.

They have made statistical research, but effects can be "garbage in - garbage out", if the input is not a quality one, the output will be the same as well. However, tests for vitamin D are simple, and 700+ is a good sample.

The research says, if you have read the paper, that D vitamin levels were measured on admission.

The researchers said in the research that they have got access to patient dossiers (electronic medical records), otherwise, they could not do the research.

It is actually quite impressive to get a paper like this from Kalimantan, from a small hospital in kabupaten Sukamara, which is in the middle of nowhere in Central Kalimantan on the sea, with a simple and intelligent approach.

 

[dafluff]

The research says, if you have read the paper, that D vitamin levels were measured on admission.

Ah missed that somehow. Considering the utter chaos in the beginning when patients were sent from hospital to hospital just to get to admitted or even just to get tested I think it's remarkable that Vit D levels were checked at all.

It is actually quite impressive to get a paper like this from Kalimantan, from a small hospital in kabupaten Sukamara, which is in the middle of nowhere in Central Kalimantan on the sea, with a simple and intelligent approach.

My optimistic side very much agrees with this. My pessimistic side however, wonders if this is too good to be true...

 

[dafluff]

Interesting quote in the article below:

The 1600 designated COVID-19 beds have never been fully occupied, Anies says, and right now, only 900 of Jakarta's ICU units are in use.

Even accepting that the "real" case number in Jakarta is 15-30k, and the death rate about 1,500/month, it is clear that the pandemic is much slower in Jakarta than it is in many northern hemisphere countries/cities.

'Not allowed to do testing': governor says Jakarta was tracking COVID-19 cases in January

By challenging claims that Indonesia has coronavirus under control, Jakarta Governor Aneis Baswedan has become the Andrew Cuomo of south-east Asia.

www.smh.com.au

 

[Bad_azz]

If we take a look all along equatorial regions we can see that there does not appear to be the same spread as elsewhere.
Have there been any official comparison studies done?

 

[Balifrog]

If we take a look all along equatorial regions we can see that there does not appear to be the same spread as elsewhere.
Have there been any official comparison studies done?

Impossible to do RELIABLE comparisons IMO :
Data collection is dubious in many countries
Labelling of deaths as Covid related is dubious in many countries
Even among the 1st class western countries the definition on what constitutes death due to C19 is not harmonized. Even EU countries all count differently (see Belgium apparently horrific numbers, mainly due to the counting method).
Only the "excess" global deaths compared to the same periods in the past years are reliable indicators.