Domestic violence, need advice/opinion

[Vulgarian]

Rhyme-as-reason effect - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[HappyMan]

Regardless of there is always 2 sides to a story , there is no excuse for putting your hands on another person be it female or male

Self-defense is an excuse . Defending your child is another one. You could defend a stranger. You could defend your home from someone with a can full of gas and a hand full of matches...
I don't think that making someone feel guilty about defending themselves is helpful.

 

[Balifrog]

Regardless of there is always 2 sides to a story , there is no excuse for putting your hands on another person be it female or male

I am more an Old Testament guy .....

 

[Balifrog]

Self-defense is an excuse . Defending your child is another one. You could defend a stranger. You could defend your home from someone with a can full of gas and a hand full of matches...

I wouldn't use the word "excuse" but rather "good reason" !

 

[snpark]

When you assume you make an ass of you and me

Etc etc

 

[Dharma Police]

You can't spell 'psychotherapist' without 'psycho', 'the' or the 'r' word. I really don't get your line of reasoning here...

* Cue in meditative new age flute*

Self-defense isn't an act of violence, it is the Way of The Peaceful Warrior.

 

[Bad_azz]

I don't think this is the best thread for mocking or judging people's actions (when they are caught up in the domestic violence cycle).
Domestic violence is a very serious issue with lots of complex situations and emotions involved.
Sometimes when I read the posts I think I deal with 9th graders who have more sensitivity & and tact.

 

[Bad_azz]

Self-defense is an excuse . Defending your child is another one. You could defend a stranger. You could defend your home from someone with a can full of gas and a hand full of matches...
I don't think that making someone feel guilty about defending themselves is helpful.

I think that by the time an injured party in a domestic violence situation resorts to retaliation it is most always because they have reached the end of their rope & just don't feel able to find an alternative.
The alternative is often just to walk away - get out of the relationship. However by the time things have gotten so bad many are so conditioned into the toxic cycle that they feel unable to end it- frequently due to their self worth being in the zero or minus range.

 

[HappyMan]

I think that by the time an injured party in a domestic violence situation resorts to retaliation it is most always because they have reached the end of their rope & just don't feel able to find an alternative.
The alternative is often just to walk away - get out of the relationship. However by the time things have gotten so bad many are so conditioned into the toxic cycle that they feel unable to end it- frequently due to their self worth being in the zero or minus range.

There is this idiotic form of optimism that people sometimes have though...

As a teenager, I used to cut myself, burn myself, probably your "average" self-harm situation (details are sort of moot). Eventually, my circumstances changed and a couple of key moments happened that improved my outlook. Upshot was, I decided not to do that shit anymore, and for whatever reason it has stuck for 19 years. I'm not saying I'm not self destructive, but I don't actually take knives and heated metal to my own body any more.

Somehow I thought that I could present my partner with a chance to make a decision, and she would decide not to (physically) harm me any more. I thought that she could just make a decision similar to the one I did years ago. And, she did stop hitting me, eventually. But, the underlying problems we (both) had were still there.

Yeah, I know I'm also shit, so I didn't expect my partner to be perfect... But, I've made another decision there, and I'm done letting anyone have free punches. Clearly, the better things to do is leave, but I'll not be beaten on my way to the door because the person hitting me is a woman. Enough.

 

[Dharma Police]

I don't think this is the best thread for mocking or judging people's actions (when they are caught up in the domestic violence cycle).
Domestic violence is a very serious issue with lots of complex situations and emotions involved.
Sometimes when I read the posts I think I deal with 9th graders who have more sensitivity & and tact.

It's not coming from an immature view of domestic violence. People who have a clear definition of violence know, when that line is crossed, and someone strikes you - you either remove yourself from the situation, or defend yourself. Fight or flight. If you cannot remove yourself from the attacker, then we have to talk about the gray area, but let's leave that aside for now.

Do you know why someone like the OP's wife thinks she has carte blanche, and that it's okay to hit him or stab him with a knife? It's because she has never gotten her ass properly kicked. I'm not condoning him beating her, god no, that's beyond the pale. I mean, she has never acted like a damn lunatic and had another female beat her until her ass really looked silly. This is so common that it's practically a law - women never fight. They bicker, undermine, talk and act stupid. The same goes for men who beat their partners. They're emboldened to do it because there's no real repercussion. There is something primeval about getting punched that can set a person straight. Does it correct violent offenders every time? Of course not. There are no absolutes. But there is something about that metallic taste exploding out of a person's skull that will make them re-think their actions (and words).

Sorry to say, but most women don't know what I'm talking about.

 

[Bad_azz]

It's not coming from an immature view of domestic violence. People who have a clear definition of violence know, when that line is crossed, and someone strikes you - you either remove yourself from the situation, or defend yourself. Fight or flight. If you cannot remove yourself from the attacker, then we have to talk about the gray area, but let's leave that aside for now.

Do you know why someone like the OP's wife thinks she has carte blanche, and that it's okay to hit him or stab him with a knife? It's because she has never gotten her ass properly kicked. I'm not condoning him beating her, god no, that's beyond the pale. I mean, she has never acted like a damn lunatic and had another female beat her until her ass really looked silly. This is so common that it's practically a law - women never fight. They bicker, undermine, talk and act stupid. The same goes for men who beat their partners. They're emboldened to do it because there's no real repercussion. There is something primeval about getting punched that can set a person straight. Does it correct violent offenders every time? Of course not. There are no absolutes. But there is something about that metallic taste exploding out of a person's skull that will make them re-think their actions (and words).

Sorry to say, but most women don't know what I'm talking about.

You really do have a very skewed perspective in your own sphere and seem to assume it is the same for everyone.
.
I'm done.

 

[Dharma Police]

You really do have a very skewed perspective in your own sphere and seem to assume it is the same for everyone.
.
I'm done.

People like you are the problem. It's like those horses with blinders on. You refuse to look peripherally and consider other opinions. How do you not get that violent bullies get that way because they prey on the weak??

 

[HappyMan]

People like you are the problem. It's like those horses with blinders on. You refuse to look peripherally and consider other opinions. How do you not get that violent bullies get that way because they prey on the weak??

Some people just aren't willing to fight the ones they love. I'd laugh at the idea of some random stranger raising a hand to me, and for sure one of us would be headed to the hospital (possibly/probably me). I am full of rage, but even now, the only time I feel like I was justified in turning my hand to her was when she laid hands on my child. (Even then, I wonder if I am taking pride in the wrong thing.)

I've written and deleted many things here... But, the gist of it is that I am annoyed by your ignorance and failure to understand the complexity of the human condition. On the one hand, we have @PaulDG888 , telling us we are never right to respond to violence with violence, and on the other hand we have you, speaking to BA (a long time social worker and survivor of domestic violence) about how violence is the answer to violence... It's a bit more complicated than, "beat her ass, then she'll understand she has no right to beat your ass".

Really, fuck your whole premise. I still feel like shit when I think of all the colleagues I had who probably thought I was a wife-beater because my wife hurt herself and they sat in silent (or not so silent) judgement of me when she would appear with bruises on her face (people I liked and respected). Now, I have you telling me I am weak because I didn't k.o. her every time she had a mental breakdown... I can't decide whether they are worse for not having some understanding for me, or you are worse for not having some understanding for her.

Get a grip and keep your useless generalisms to yourself, at least when speaking to actual people about their actual lives. Sure, I come on here and give my broad and bull-shitted opinions, but you are talking to people about their actual lives now. Have some god's damned tact.

 

[Dharma Police]

@HappyMan and @Bad_azz

You two have serious reading comprehension problems. The fact that you think I'm condoning a man physically beating a woman, under any circumstances, even if she attacks, supports that notion.

Read some more books, go through a dictionary A - Z, take an online English class, I don't know. Just do something, because you two are making me feel depressed for humanity.

 

[HappyMan]

@HappyMan and @Bad_azz

You two have serious reading comprehension problems. The fact that you think I'm condoning a man physically beating a woman, under any circumstances, even if she attacks, supports that notion.

Read some more books, go through a dictionary A - Z, take an online English class, I don't know. Just do something, because you two are making me feel depressed for humanity.

Actually, I'm on the side of a man who is defending himself from a woman who is beating him... or vice versa. I'm against you dictating that as the appropriate response... Really, I'm against you (or me) dictating any particular response.

Your complicated conceit, that a man should have a woman beat his partner... just having the causation be removed one step makes no difference, when you support the outcome... "I didn't beat her, my mate beat her while I watched." If you reckon that is different (ethically), carry on, but I'm not seeing the difference. Actually, I'd have defended her from my mates, had they raised hand to her. Everyone but her was fair game.

So, "read some more books, go through a dictionary A - Z, take an online English class, I don't know. Just do something, because your lack of understanding is making me feel depressed for humanity."

 

[LRB]

It's not coming from an immature view of domestic violence. People who have a clear definition of violence know, when that line is crossed, and someone strikes you - you either remove yourself from the situation, or defend yourself. Fight or flight. If you cannot remove yourself from the attacker, then we have to talk about the gray area, but let's leave that aside for now.

Do you know why someone like the OP's wife thinks she has carte blanche, and that it's okay to hit him or stab him with a knife? It's because she has never gotten her ass properly kicked. I'm not condoning him beating her, god no, that's beyond the pale. I mean, she has never acted like a damn lunatic and had another female beat her until her ass really looked silly. This is so common that it's practically a law - women never fight. They bicker, undermine, talk and act stupid. The same goes for men who beat their partners. They're emboldened to do it because there's no real repercussion. There is something primeval about getting punched that can set a person straight. Does it correct violent offenders every time? Of course not. There are no absolutes. But there is something about that metallic taste exploding out of a person's skull that will make them re-think their actions (and words).

Sorry to say, but most women don't know what I'm talking about.

I'm sorry to say, but you seem very confused. Typically most people are violent in relationships because that is how they were treated or saw their parents interacting during childhood. They were controlled in this manner and now seek to replicate that control over others using the same means that they were subjected to. That is an oversimplification but in a nutshell, that is essentially it. It's a learned behavior.

Now, what is frustrating here is the number of logical fallacies that you employ to make your points. You don't consider underpinning factors or deeper meaning. You don't consider other people's perspectives and you resort to strange positions to obfuscate real discourse. Above, you resorted to unsophisticated linguistic 'tricks' and now you are arguing from authority because you're not a woman and you have had your behind walloped a few times, presumably.

Well, there is nothing more respectable than humility. Particularly in the form of intellectual honesty. So, moving forward, my advice to you would be to consider long term and short term reasoning and to realize the limits of your knowledge. You only know what others are willing to disclose to you about their personal experiences and being one hundred percent 'right' when discussing human behavior in a public forum is impossible. As an adult, you should be able to enter a conversation with someone that holds different opinions to you and still maintain some sense of composure. There should be no need to dominate conversation and you should be comfortable in the knowledge that a successful conversation is one where you understand your interlocutor's viewpoints with more clarity. Not where you control and dominate the direction of communication...

For the record, I'm male, I've been beaten up in the past and I didn't learn much from it. I interact fairly minimally on this forum but I have been treated well for the most part by other members such as Bad Azz, Atlantis and ChrisTex. All people whose online presence I respect precisely because it is clearly demonstrable that they can have honest and open interactions without the need to dominate discourse.

 

[Dharma Police]

I'm sorry to say, but you seem very confused. Typically most people are violent in relationships because that is how they were treated or saw their parents interacting during childhood. They were controlled in this manner and now seek to replicate that control over others using the same means that they were subjected to. That is an oversimplification but in a nutshell, that is essentially it. It's a learned behavior.

Now, what is frustrating here is the number of logical fallacies that you employ to make your points. You don't consider underpinning factors or deeper meaning. You don't consider other people's perspectives and you resort to strange positions to obfuscate real discourse. Above, you resorted to unsophisticated linguistic 'tricks' and now you are arguing from authority because you're not a woman and you have had your behind walloped a few times, presumably.

Well, there is nothing more respectable than humility. Particularly in the form of intellectual honesty. So, moving forward, my advice to you would be to consider long term and short term reasoning and to realize the limits of your knowledge. You only know what others are willing to disclose to you about their personal experiences and being one hundred percent 'right' when discussing human behavior in a public forum is impossible. As an adult, you should be able to enter a conversation with someone that holds different opinions to you and still maintain some sense of composure. There should be no need to dominate conversation and you should be comfortable in the knowledge that a successful conversation is one where you understand your interlocutor's viewpoints with more clarity. Not where you control and dominate the direction of communication...

For the record, I'm male, I've been beaten up in the past and I didn't learn much from it. I interact fairly minimally on this forum but I have been treated well for the most part by other members such as Bad Azz, Atlantis and ChrisTex. All people whose online presence I respect precisely because it is clearly demonstrable that they can have honest and open interactions without the need to dominate discourse.

Of course. Who wouldn't know this? This is in every literature and study about perpetrators of domestic violence. It's oftentimes learned behavior. I didn't delve into this, since my aim wasn't to cover every aspect of the pathology.

The notion that every abuser would stop if they get their asses kicked, is ridiculous. To even suggest that that's my stance is a red herring fallacy, and you know it. It works like a charm in message boards though, since we all love to be right, often at the expense of open-minded discourse and understanding. I guess I need to say it bluntly: in my experience bullies continue to hurt people, until they get a taste of their own medicine. How this can possibly be misunderstood to the point that people are offended is beyond me. I think I know what went wrong. They think within the context of the OP, I'm saying he should hit his wife back. This is insane. All they had to do is read through the thread, without a confirmation bias.

Sorry, but I don't buy it. If you've gotten beaten up for running your mouth or acting out of line, then you definitely think twice before making the same mistake. The brain can't help it, an anxiety sets in when we're faced with danger. If you're saying you didn't learn from being abused at home, then again, we are broaching a subject I never addressed.

 

[Dharma Police]

Now, I have you telling me I am weak because I didn't k.o. her every time she had a mental breakdown

@HappyMan

I didn't even suggest anything of the kind. Feel free to quote where that could even be a source of confusion.

 

[HappyMan]

@HappyMan

I didn't even suggest anything of the kind. Feel free to quote where that could even be a source of confusion.

Here:

How do you not get that violent bullies get that way because they prey on the weak??

Look, man. I'm feeling a bit done with this whole thread. I don't understand my own mind on the whole topic, so chatting about it with people on the internet... I don't think I'm helping anyone, including myself, really. I don't really want to think about this shit, should have stuck to general "best wishes" and "stay safe" stuff.

 

[Dharma Police]

To save yourself a lot of money, look into renting a kosan. You're going to need it if divorce is imminent. Also, if you go back to get some things and she's home, have your phone ready to video an attack. You will want evidence beyond the "he said, she said" variety. Just get the proof while you're far from her reach.

I guess @Bad_azz, @HappyMan and @LRB didn't see this? It sounds like I'm advising Matoa to peacefully remove himself from his wife's physical attacks, does it not?

@LRB . No one is impressed by your brown-nosing, name-dropping, white knight persona. As the kids say, "Stay in your lane" and jangan ikut campur when 3 adults are debating a topic. ("Obfuscate"?? I get it, you like to use a thesaurus to appear more intellectual. It's an old trick). This forum's members can defend themselves. Chill out, they didn't shine the bat signal, Bruce Wayne.

I'm sensing Stockholm syndrome, where we are expected to excuse a brutal person, since they grew up in an abusive household. Bullshit. I have no empathy towards such unapologetic, violent people, and my solution is to remove myself from the situation BUT, I stand by my original statement: don't hit people. If you do, all bets are off. Btw, did you even consider getting stabbed by a woman, as a man? This was in the OP's post. I don't know about you, but a survival instinct will kick in, and a man may have to hold her arms down to protect himself. Some of you seem to think this is unacceptable, because she was abused as a child. Please, huh?

@HappyMan, I saw your last comment. I guess that's an apology.