Do I have to have travel/health insurance?

[john madden]

You seem obsessed with "bogus asylum seekers". I find it tiresome, given that the experience of asylum seekers (in Australia at least) bears no resemblance to your claims.

 

[gemima]

At home Indonesia now, just had medical examination MRI MRCP, I'm schock with the result showing my gallbladder is still in place with few gallstones inside and 2 stuck in bile ducts, these cause severe abdominal pain.
So, I have to undergo ERCP again tomorrow and then laparoscopy again. OMG.
Estimate cost for ERCP is Rp. 160M (VIP)

Wow - So you had it removed here previously but it's apparently back now??? Is it the same hospital?

 

[Helpful Herbert]

At home Indonesia now, just had medical examination MRI MRCP, I'm schock with the result showing my gallbladder is still in place with few gallstones inside and 2 stuck in bile ducts, these cause severe abdominal pain.
So, I have to undergo ERCP again tomorrow and then laparoscopy again. OMG.
Estimate cost for ERCP is Rp. 160M (VIP)

How is that possible? Sounds like you could sue them for medical negligence.

For me I had my gallbladder taken out in Europe (cost around $2k, paid in cash). It completely solved the problem, although I can't eat a whole 1 litre tub of ice cream in one go (which I shouldn't do anyway, and I couldn't before the operation either). They did a USG scan of it before the operation just to verify it was full of stones.

I still don't understand the point of doing an ECRP/MRCP. It is far easier and cheaper to take the gallbladder out. It sounds like some doctors could see they could make much more money from you by trying to offer unnecessary extra procedures. Wouldn't be the first time!

 

[Wisnu]

So the previous laparoscopic surgery was a scam?

It's not impossible.
According the internist and surgeon here, there's 3 possibilities:
1. Pseudociystic / sack due to incomplete removal
2. Having 2 gallbladders (very rare case)
3. The previous surgery was not able to remove the gallbladder and they hiding it.

Let see tomorrow what they get

 

[Wisnu]

In Western countries, particularly in Europe, the expenses for such treatments are covered by the government, funded by taxpayers. This means that everyone, including those who have never contributed to the system, such as bogus asylum seekers, is not required to make payments.

However Rp. 160 million in Jakarta where the minimum wage is 4.9 million IDR per month, some individuals would have to be reborn two to three times to accumulate that amount. It might be wise to consider exploring cost comparisons with other local hospitals or even hospitals abroad.

If you possess private insurance, especially if it is entirely managed by Indonesian healthcare insurance providers, it remains to be seen whether situations like this will be covered without encountering significant hurdles, a great fight. A small percentage of Rp160m could be easily used to sway the judges decision; even the judges in the supreme courts. It's reassuring to know that Indonesia is progressing in the right direction with the establishment of BPJS.

We're covered by Cigna international under my company health benefits, with worldwide coverage.

 

[Wisnu]

Wow - So you had it removed here previously but it's apparently back now??? Is it the same hospital?

The previous one was in Cairo, Egypt, at the best hospital in the country, at least what they said, and one of two hospitals in Cairo approved by my company.

Now in RS Eka Cibubur

 

[Wisnu]

How is that possible? Sounds like you could sue them for medical negligence.

For me I had my gallbladder taken out in Europe (cost around $2k, paid in cash). It completely solved the problem, although I can't eat a whole 1 litre tub of ice cream in one go (which I shouldn't do anyway, and I couldn't before the operation either). They did a USG scan of it before the operation just to verify it was full of stones.

I still don't understand the point of doing an ECRP/MRCP. It is far easier and cheaper to take the gallbladder out. It sounds like some doctors could see they could make much more money from you by trying to offer unnecessary extra procedures. Wouldn't be the first time!

no problem if the gallstones keep remain in the gallbladder.
In my case now, two gallstones move to the common bile duct and stuck there. These cause severe pain and jaundice. So, have to be removed first.
On my previous ERCP, they insert stent to CBD to allow bile flow to duodenum.
The next step, once fully recovered, then they will remove the gallbladder.

 

[gemima]

The previous one was in Cairo, Egypt, at the best hospital in the country, at least what they said, and one of two hospitals in Cairo approved by my company.

Now in RS Eka Cibubur

Good luck with the operation and hospital stay - hopefully you recover quickly.

 

[Helpful Herbert]

no problem if the gallstones keep remain in the gallbladder.
In my case now, two gallstones move to the common bile duct and stuck there.

That is exactly the problem. If you keep the gallstones they will sometimes move into the bile duct and cause problems. Far better to remove the gallbladder at the beginning. The gallbladder is not needed by the body, similar to an appendix.

 

[Shadrach]

If their not needed, then why are they there? I guess they are like foreskins!

 

[Wisnu]

If their not needed, then why are they there? I guess they are like foreskins!

The function of gallbladder is store bile produced by the liver and squeeze the bile when needed by our digestive system.
Without gallbladder, then bile liquid is still produced but no control hence no optimum digestion of fatty food.

 

[Wisnu]

ERCP done yesterday, so far so good
They manage to remove the stent from previous ERCP which fully covered by sludge and had migrated to intra hepatic duct.
The doctor in Egypt told me that the stent is metal, no need to remove it. They lied.
This is the plastic stent inserted to my CBD 4 years ago, have been cleaned,

With balloon, they clean lot stones and hardened sludges from CBD. They inserted new plastic stent which shall be removed within 3 months.

 

[Helpful Herbert]

Without gallbladder, then bile liquid is still produced but no control hence no optimum digestion of fatty food.

Not really. The body realigns to the lack of a gallbladder and after a period of a few months, where you may have some minor digestive problems, it learns how to digest fatty food again in the most effective way.

 

[gemima]

ERCP done yesterday, so far so good
They manage to remove the stent from previous ERCP which fully covered by sludge and had migrated to intra hepatic duct.
The doctor in Egypt told me that the stent is metal, no need to remove it. They lied.
This is the plastic stent inserted to my CBD 4 years ago, have been cleaned,
View attachment 3414

With balloon, they clean lot stones and hardened sludges from CBD. They inserted new plastic stent which shall be removed within 3 months.

Wow - Ive never seen a stent before - that looks painful (considering its migration).
Hope you are feeling okay and on the mend now. Get well soon.

 

[Wisnu]

Not really. The body realigns to the lack of a gallbladder and after a period of a few months, where you may have some minor digestive problems, it learns how to digest fatty food again in the most effective way.

Can You Live Without a Gallbladder? Diet, Lifestyle, & Life Expectancy

Do you really need your gallbladder? The answer might surprise you. We’ll go over the gallbladder’s functions and break down the dietary and lifestyle changes needed to live a healthy, gallbladder-free life. We’ll also explain whether having your gallbladder removed affects your life expectancy.

www.healthline.com

Without a gallbladder, there’s no place for bile to collect. Instead, your liver releases bile straight into the small intestine. This allows you to still digest most foods. However, large amounts of fatty, greasy, or high-fiber food become harder to digest.

 

[Helpful Herbert]

Can You Live Without a Gallbladder? Diet, Lifestyle, & Life Expectancy

Do you really need your gallbladder? The answer might surprise you. We’ll go over the gallbladder’s functions and break down the dietary and lifestyle changes needed to live a healthy, gallbladder-free life. We’ll also explain whether having your gallbladder removed affects your life expectancy.

www.healthline.com

Without a gallbladder, there’s no place for bile to collect. Instead, your liver releases bile straight into the small intestine. This allows you to still digest most foods. However, large amounts of fatty, greasy, or high-fiber food become harder to digest.

As someone who has experienced it, "large amounts" means VERY large amounts, which you should not be eating anyway. As I mentioned earlier I cannot eat a 1 litre tub of ice cream as it will cause discomfort (a mild version of a gallbladder attack). But anything within the range of a normal diet is absolutely fine. It does not involve large-scale changes to your diet (except for the first few months), it just means you can't gorge on fatty foods.
As an example, in one day I can have 2 scoops of ice cream, 3 chocolate bars, a burger, fries and various snacks throughout the day, and there will be no effect. If I have double that in one day, I'll have some discomfort though. However even that is much better than having a gallbladder and therefore a gallbladder attack which is intense agonising pain for around 5 hours needed hospital-grade painkillers.

Anyway I wish you the best of luck with the operation!

 

[Shadrach]

Lived here nearly 7 years and never been asked for Health Insurance card when renewing Kitas or Converting to Kitap . Been to local health clinic several times , never been asked for proof of health insurance , they were happy with Kitap Card , SKTTS and Domicle letters from the Kepala Desa . Health Insurance is as useless as a knob of goat shit . They still want there cash up front then you've got to hassle with the company your insured with to get any money back which is like trying to get blood out of a stone

The insurance companies are quick to take your money, but to get them to pay for something, like you said is like getting blood from a stone. They will look for every possible way not to pay. Some people say they had good luck with their companies. They were very lucky if you ask me!

 

[Helpful Herbert]

The insurance companies are quick to take your money, but to get them to pay for something, like you said is like getting blood from a stone. They will look for every possible way not to pay. Some people say they had good luck with their companies. They were very lucky if you ask me!

If you are disciplined enough, self-insurance is the best thing to do. a) Make a savings account and put some money in it each month. b) Take care of your own health and what you eat. c) Pay in cash for medical procedures. Maybe joining BPJS would be a good back up if there are any long term conditions for meds etc.

 

[pantaiema]

We're covered by Cigna international under my company health benefits, with worldwide coverage.

Good luck with your operation. Glad to hear that it is all covered by insurance.

 

[Hawk256]

If you are disciplined enough, self-insurance is the best thing to do. a) Make a savings account and put some money in it each month. b) Take care of your own health and what you eat. c) Pay in cash for medical procedures. Maybe joining BPJS would be a good back up if there are any long term conditions for meds etc.

That is exactly what I have been doing. If it's something small and quick I just pay out of pocket. Used BPJS for my heart attack and had no complaints at all about the care I received. As usual, YMMV but I was very happy with the care.