Deforestation: rainforest destruction and social conflict in Indonesian Borneo

[serious_fun]

report here

Is it true that a conglomerate owned by Indonesian billionaire Sukanto Tanoto (PT Mayawana Persada) has cleared a forested area roughly half the size of Singapore, causing conflicts with indigenous communities and destroying the habitat of Bornean orangutans, white-bearded gibbons, and other protected species?

Hmm... probably not. Nobody would do such a thing.

 

[Bob]

report here

Is it true that a conglomerate owned by Indonesian billionaire Sukanto Tanoto (PT Mayawana Persada) has cleared a forested area roughly half the size of Singapore, causing conflicts with indigenous communities and destroying the habitat of Bornean orangutans, white-bearded gibbons, and other protected species?

Hmm... probably not. Nobody would do such a thing.

Well that's just discouraging.

 

[Shadrach]

Well that's just discouraging.

What's new? This has been going on for a long time, Do you think greedy people, give a damn about Indigenous people, Orangutans, Gibbons, Tigers, Elephants, Gorilla's, etc. they always say, it supplies jobs, for locals, so everyone should just turn a blind eye, and not look at the destruction. It actually just makes a very few, very rich! I'm sure, much of this destruction comes from companies, from Malaysia, and Singapore, China! The western countries are more interested in precious minerals! Big money talks, and the Planet, keeps getting destroyed more and more daily. And to say, no one would do such a thing, is either provocative, or just plain blind ignorance!

 

[jstar]

Of course we all think it’s ‘scandalous’ but on the other side we don’t want to lose our car, we want to keep on eating some ice cream from time to time, and don’t want to go back to the cotton diapers you need to wash yourself era.

 

[Samoerai]

Of course we all think it’s ‘scandalous’ but on the other side we don’t want to lose our car, we want to keep on eating some ice cream from time to time, and don’t want to go back to the cotton diapers you need to wash yourself era.

... for cheap.

 

[Balifrog]

Of course we all think it’s ‘scandalous’ but on the other side we don’t want to lose our car, we want to keep on eating some ice cream from time to time, and don’t want to go back to the cotton diapers you need to wash yourself era.

Spot on !
Everybody want to "save the planet" but of course nobody want to go back to live like 200 years ago....

And meanwhile in China.....

China is Building Coal-Fired Power Plants at an Alarming Rate

As the number one importer of both crude oil and coal, China is the largest consumer of energy and CO2 producer in the world. Approximately one-third of...

insights.taylorenglish.com

So, those idiots from "STOP OIL" in Europe (wearing Crocs and HiViz jackets made with oil products...) aren't going to change anything.

 

[Bob]

What's new? This has been going on for a long time, Do you think greedy people, give a damn about Indigenous people, Orangutans, Gibbons, Tigers, Elephants, Gorilla's, etc. they always say, it supplies jobs, for locals, so everyone should just turn a blind eye, and not look at the destruction. It actually just makes a very few, very rich! I'm sure, much of this destruction comes from companies, from Malaysia, and Singapore, China! The western countries are more interested in precious minerals! Big money talks, and the Planet, keeps getting destroyed more and more daily. And to say, no one would do such a thing, is either provocative, or just plain blind ignorance!

Yes it's nothing new. What's discouraging is that the mentality which promotes such activity is still so prevalent.

 

[Bob]

Of course we all think it’s ‘scandalous’ but on the other side we don’t want to lose our car, we want to keep on eating some ice cream from time to time, and don’t want to go back to the cotton diapers you need to wash yourself era.

All of which we could do without this and similar projects.

 

[Shadrach]

All of which we could do without this and similar projects.

Yes you are right about not losing your car, but we are being held captive to petroleum and technology with machines very inefficient!

 

[Shadrach]

Also ice cream is not hard to make with the right equipment. As for cotton diapers, when my kids were young, that's all we had. I really don't like the so called disposable diapers. Sure they are convenient, but it takes them a thousand years to break down! I've seen way too many of them thrown on the side of the road, by people that don't give a shite! We can have all these luxuries made with biodegradable in mind. Let's get the corporations to use biodegradable oil, to make plastic! Look at the poor beaches! It's not banana leaves anymore!

 

[harryopal1]

What's new? This has been going on for a long time, Do you think greedy people, give a damn about Indigenous people, Orangutans, Gibbons, Tigers, Elephants, Gorilla's, etc. they always say, it supplies jobs, for locals, so everyone should just turn a blind eye, and not look at the destruction. It actually just makes a very few, very rich! I'm sure, much of this destruction comes from companies, from Malaysia, and Singapore, China! The western countries are more interested in precious minerals! Big money talks, and the Planet, keeps getting destroyed more and more daily. And to say, no one would do such a thing, is either provocative, or just plain blind ignorance!

I am sure Serious fun was being ironic.

 

[Balifrog]

We can have all these luxuries made with biodegradable in mind. Let's get the corporations to use biodegradable oil, to make plastic

Sure technically feasible, but are we.ready to pay double for it ?

Look at the range of prices for eggs.... between 100% industrial and "guaranteed" BIO OMEGA 3 egss..... prices go from 1 to 3 !

Hydrogen is also technically possible, but economically not viable.

BTW, synthetic petrol / diesel is technically feasible. The Germans are looking at it. Note they already worked.on the subject.during WW2, but very likely after the war, the oil lobbies burried the subject ?

 

[Shadrach]

Spot on !
Everybody want to "save the planet" but of course nobody want to go back to live like 200 years ago....

And meanwhile in China.....

China is Building Coal-Fired Power Plants at an Alarming Rate

As the number one importer of both crude oil and coal, China is the largest consumer of energy and CO2 producer in the world. Approximately one-third of...

insights.taylorenglish.com

So, those idiots from "STOP OIL" in Europe (wearing Crocs and HiViz jackets made with oil products...) aren't going to change anything.

People only buy what is being pushed on them as far as clothing, food, fuel, building material, etc. if biodegradable products were pushed, people would buy that for sure!

 

[harryopal1]

What's new? This has been going on for a long time, Do you think greedy people, give a damn about Indigenous people, Orangutans, Gibbons, Tigers, Elephants, Gorilla's, etc. they always say, it supplies jobs, for locals, so everyone should just turn a blind eye, and not look at the destruction. It actually just makes a very few, very rich! I'm sure, much of this destruction comes from companies, from Malaysia, and Singapore, China! The western countries are more interested in precious minerals! Big money talks, and the Planet, keeps getting destroyed more and more daily. And to say, no one would do such a thing, is either provocative, or just plain blind ignorance!

I am sure Serious fun was being ironic.

 

[Balifrog]

People only buy what is being pushed on them as far as clothing, food, fuel, building material, etc. if biodegradable products were pushed, people would buy that for sure!

Not if they are 50% more expensive.

Cost of daily living is most people's main worry nowaday before anythig else.

Every poll in France shows it clearly. At every election it's all about price control, voucher, government aid, etc....

 

[jstar]

Hydrogen is also technically possible, but economically not viable.

BTW, synthetic petrol / diesel is technically feasible. The Germans are looking at it. Note they already worked.on the subject.during WW2, but very likely after the war, the oil lobbies burried the subject ?

Of course Hydrogen only makes sense if the electricity is ‘green’. Doesn’t make a lot of sense to produce an environment friendly solution with power stations that run on coal. Obviously we need to go back to more nuclear energy and invest in more of those plants. But in Indonesia?

In case of the recent Biofuels research, you should replace the word Germans with “Porsche” They would like to keep the 911 without (full) electrification. Probably those owners are the only ones capable of paying the price of €4 per liter.

 

[fastpitch17]

Point A to point B seems to be getting farther apart so transportation of some sort will always be needed.
Still need a roof over your head be it rented or owned. You can learn to do your own maintenance but material will still cost you.
Fossil fuels? Is not the oil taken from the Earth originally a bio breakdown product?
One could have a garden but space is limited so for many a small container garden might work temporarily. To have a constant supply one would need many containers so enter the limited space problem again.
Clothes. Clothes are the only thing that could be eliminated. Maybe a poncho for rainy days but one could be missing an opportunity to save showering and using their own water. Could save rain water but there again a cost for the storage and collecting. Yep, I said no need for clothes. Probably be a more peaceful world too. Even lead to people respecting others. Something this world is in great need of.

 

[Shadrach]

Of course Hydrogen only makes sense if the electricity is ‘green’. Doesn’t make a lot of sense to produce an environment friendly solution with power stations that run on coal. Obviously we need to go back to more nuclear energy and invest in more of those plants. But in Indonesia?

In case of the recent Biofuels research, you should replace the word Germans with “Porsche” They would like to keep the 911 without (full) electrification. Probably those owners are the only ones capable of paying the price of €4 per liter.

Your statement about obviously we need more Nuclear power plants, floored me! How can people promote this toxic source if energy as clean fuel? No one seems to mention how deadly the fallout is for the whole world! Ask the people who survived Hiroshima, and Nagasaki what they think about Nuclear radiation? I do agree making biofuel from coal powered plants is not good either. All I am saying is, we need to produce the things we use and need in a sustainable, non polluting way so they we don't destroy this Planet for generations to come!

 

[snpark]

Yes that's sort of like telling straight couples to stop making gay babies

Or asking a vegetarian why they keep stealing animal's food if they care so much

 

[pantaiema]

People ONLY buy what is being pushed on them as far as clothing, food, fuel, building material, etc. if biodegradable products were pushed, people would buy that for sure!

The idea you mentioned applies mainly to those struggling to meet the basic needs. These basic needs are fundamental to everyone. However once these basic needs are satisfied, people strive for a higher level of needs like safety & security, love & belonging, self-esteem, self actualisation. Abraham Maslow described the human needs as hierarchical, depicts human needs as a pyramid with basic needs at the foundation. This is why some wealthy people, billionaires become philanthropists. A few people would want to buy watches, bags cost them more than a million usd. A few people would want to travel with their pets costing them US$6k just for the flight ticket alone. Their basic needs and other needs are already satisfied, allowing them to pursue higher level of needs. Maslow's theory is widely recognized in psychology. There are a lot of informations about this theory available online.

Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs

Maslow's hierarchy of needs is a pyramid of the needs that motivate people. Individuals most basic needs, at the base of the pyramid, are physiological. Once they have fulfilled these needs, people move on to their safety needs, social well-being, self-esteem then ultimately their need for...

www.simplypsychology.org