Bringing fresh eggs to Indonesia (Jakarta)

gemima

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Slightly out of topic: I remember Bob Sadino, founder of Kem Chicks, started his business selling washed eggs to foreigners in Kemang. Kem Chicks is Kemang Chickens. They would come full circle if they begin the business of pasture-raised chickens and eggs for foreigners.
I thought washed eggs were bad - it removes the protective coating and means they need to be refrigerated...why was he selling washed eggs to foreigners!?!

I would love to be able to find free-range eggs and chickens here. I'm not willing to stop eating meat but when I have an option to pay more to ensure the life of whatever animal I'm eating was a bit less miserable I'm willing to pay.
 

vanspartan

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I thought washed eggs were bad - it removes the protective coating and means they need to be refrigerated...why was he selling washed eggs to foreigners!?!

I would love to be able to find free-range eggs and chickens here. I'm not willing to stop eating meat but when I have an option to pay more to ensure the life of whatever animal I'm eating was a bit less miserable I'm willing to pay.
You're right, washed eggs have to be kept refrigerated at all times to prevent bacteria growth.
And yeah I agree, I do believe true free-range (pasture-raised) chickens produce better quality and healthier meat and eggs. Not that BS fake "free-range" stuff.

But yeah I think I'll go to Kem Chicks and check out their pasture raised eggs.
 

Nimbus

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I thought washed eggs were bad - it removes the protective coating and means they need to be refrigerated...why was he selling washed eggs to foreigners!?!

I would love to be able to find free-range eggs and chickens here. I'm not willing to stop eating meat but when I have an option to pay more to ensure the life of whatever animal I'm eating was a bit less miserable I'm willing to pay.
That is true, most eggs in America have to be refrigerated because they’re washed. I don’t remember whether Bob meant cleaned or actually washed. I only remember the story that he created a market, because foreigners were squeamish with poop-tainted eggs sold in Jakarta back then. Perhaps his clients were mostly Americans. Bob did home delivery, like milk, so eggs that were consumed in a day or two were ok to be washed.
 

vanspartan

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You're right, washed eggs have to be kept refrigerated at all times to prevent bacteria growth.
And yeah I agree, I do believe true free-range (pasture-raised) chickens produce better quality and healthier meat and eggs. Not that BS fake "free-range" stuff.

But yeah I think I'll go to Kem Chicks and check out their pasture raised eggs.
Update: I went to the Pacific Place Mall today and checked out Kem Chicks while I was at it, but they also don't have pasture-raised eggs. The eggs they sell are the same brands they have at other supermarkets. Just in case you guys are wondering.
 

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waarmstrong

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According to Best Food Facts dot org (link below) the significant difference between cage-free and regular is the price, with cage-free costing considerably more. Nutritionally they are the same. This is, of course, from the humans view point. The chickens might see it differently, but who knows; I doubt there are any chickens on the board of directors of the Poultry Site referenced earlier.

https://www.bestfoodfacts.org/whats-the-difference-between-cage-free-and-regular-eggs/
 

Nimbus

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I can tell the difference in taste between pasture raised brown eggs and battery raised white eggs, if I eat them individually. The yolk is darker and has more flavor. Mixed in nasi goreng and nobody can tell where the eggs come from. As far as nutrition, I think they’re basically the same.
 

HappyMan

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I reckon the free range taste better.

They don't always look better, depending on the season and whether or not the farmer uses conventional chicken feed. I've had some milky-yellow yolked free range eggs that I would have thought were bad if someone hadn't told me otherwise. On the opposite end of that spectrum, I've eaten beautiful looking red-orange eggs that I know weren't special... the farmer just fed the chickens a certain coloring agent.

I keep telling myself I want to get a few chickens to put out in the field, but I doubt I'll ever go through the trouble.
 

harryopal

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You doubtless remember mad cow disease which related to feeding discarded beef pellets to cows. In Byron Bay NSW there was, and maybe still is, a very large battery caged chicken processing plant. If any chooks fell ill or died they were tossed into hopper, often still alive, where they were processed into pellets which were then fed to the caged chooks.
 

vanspartan

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I believe whether it's cage-free or regular egg, nutritionally they're similar in terms of macronutrient and micronutrient. But, it's differ in their toxicity content.

Eggs are able to accumulate nasty stuff, such as pesticide, bacteria or toxins, depending on the chicken's diet and environment.

"The recent research by IPEN and the Basel Action Network (BAN) shows that tenacious toxins from waste sorting in Agbogbloshie are accumulating in the bodies of chickens, then eggs, and then the people who eat the eggs." https://www.forbes.com/sites/christinero/2019/05/28/the-worlds-most-toxic-eggs/?sh=6dcc3bc73a5f

"All sixteen scientific studies published in the last five years comparing Salmonella contamination between caged and cage-free operations found that those confining hens in cages had higher rates of Salmonella, the leading cause of food poisoning related death in the United States." https://www.humanesociety.org/sites/default/files/docs/report-food-safety-eggs.pdf
 

waarmstrong

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From the Forbes article: In particular, Persistent Organic Pollutants (POPs) in Eggs: Report from Africa states, “An adult eating just one egg from a free-range chicken foraging in Agbogbloshie area would exceed the European Food Safety Authority (EFSA) tolerable daily intake (TDI) for chlorinated dioxins by 220-fold.”

In other words free-range eggs could be full of POP.
 

Nimbus

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Long before people worry about how chickens are raised and kept, Indonesians have insisted that free roaming ayam kampung (jungle fowl) is superior to caged domesticated chicken. I think the meat and the egg do taste better, but I suspect the chicken is more exposed to pollutants on the road and on the field. Indonesian farmers are not shy in using pesticides.
 

vanspartan

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Hmm.. I think I’m going to try raising pasture-raised chickens then. But I gotta do some research and experiments first. I have more free time during this pandemic anyway.
 

HappyMan

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Long before people worry about how chickens are raised and kept, Indonesians have insisted that free roaming ayam kampung (jungle fowl) is superior to caged domesticated chicken. I think the meat and the egg do taste better, but I suspect the chicken is more exposed to pollutants on the road and on the field. Indonesian farmers are not shy in using pesticides.
If it is truly free to roam about the kampung, it probably does get into more freshly sprayed fields and whatnot. But if you've got it in a fenced area, you are just exposed to whatever travels on the wind. I'd argue the fans on a coup would suck a lot of that in anyway.

Also, it might be a bit marginal, but any feed that the chickens forage from your fenced land is a heck of a lot less likely to have been sprayed recently than the components of conventional feed. I haven't got any data for that, but I've repeatedly seen people spraying less than 48 before harvesting.

Probably seem like a pedant in search of an argument here, but I'm really a bit conflicted. I've known since I was in my late teens that sustainable farming is the way towards healthy people and environments (ignoring the population problem). I've just never been all that willing to put my money where my mouth is. I guess sometimes hypocrites shout the loudest.
 

Nimbus

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If it is truly free to roam about the kampung, it probably does get into more freshly sprayed fields and whatnot. But if you've got it in a fenced area, you are just exposed to whatever travels on the wind. I'd argue the fans on a coup would suck a lot of that in anyway.

Also, it might be a bit marginal, but any feed that the chickens forage from your fenced land is a heck of a lot less likely to have been sprayed recently than the components of conventional feed. I haven't got any data for that, but I've repeatedly seen people spraying less than 48 before harvesting.

Probably seem like a pedant in search of an argument here, but I'm really a bit conflicted. I've known since I was in my late teens that sustainable farming is the way towards healthy people and environments (ignoring the population problem). I've just never been all that willing to put my money where my mouth is. I guess sometimes hypocrites shout the loudest.
Traditionally ayam kampung are allowed to go anywhere to feed themselves, minimizing (even eliminating) the owner’s feed cost. Chickens come home to roost, literally. Today I’m certain that a good percentage of them are raised in cages like ‘broiler’ chickens and fed the same industrial feed. Probably not battery cages, but definitely not free range.

Specific to Indonesia the problem is certification (or lack thereof). If people can literally buy a university diploma, buying an organic certificate is trivial. Even if the certificate was obtained honestly, people are not beyond switching their practices afterward.

If you’re gonna raise organic chickens, you probably can’t expect to get higher prices for them. It is fine for personal consumption, of course.

I’m not fully convinced that organic farming is inherently better. On one hand avoiding pesticides is definitely better (if you don’t care about yield), on the other hand the use of natural fertilizers increases the risk of salmonella. The one paper I can find from germany says 25% of organic fertilizers is tainted by salmonellae, and that’s over there in Europe. Several salmonella outbreaks in USA can be directly traced to organic manure.

While many people think that anything natural is automatically better, I don’t. Mother nature doesn’t give a damn, and in many cases she actively tries to kill us. Covid-19 is a painful reminder of it. We invent modern medicine and chemicals as defense against natural pathogens. The vilified nitrites/nitrates in food is there originally to inhibit Clostridium Botulinum, a particularly nasty germ.

I wish there’s a smart, non-ideological way of growing and processing healthy food that avoids excess chemicals while not leaving us at the mercy of nature.
 

vanspartan

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By the way, I also found this thread where people discussed their allergic reactions to store bought eggs. https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/allergic-to-store-eggs.987184/

"Ever heard of someone allergic to store eggs but not farm fresh chicken eggs? I've been with my wife for 7 years now and her mother has always avoided eggs saying it makes her sick, but in the last year she has started eating my fresh eggs and they don't bother her."

"I checked with a certified nutritionist and she said that gluten from wheat most definitely gets into the egg, almost unchanged from its original molecular makeup. This is probably true with most of the 'stuff' that is in chicken feed, medication and anything else we feed or give to them. We eat what they eat..."
 

William King

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"I checked with a certified nutritionist and she said that gluten from wheat most definitely gets into the egg, almost unchanged from its original molecular makeup. This is probably true with most of the 'stuff' that is in chicken feed, medication and anything else we feed or give to them. We eat what they eat..."

Sorry, that sounds like bunk to me.
 

Puspawarna

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I'm sure you can find citations for anything if you search the dubious corners of the internet, but reputable sites seem to indicate that eggs are gluten free no matter what the chicken ate (livestrong is a pretty good source as far as I know, regardless of what a disappointment Lance Armstrong himself turned out to be):

(Sorry, see next post for the quote from livestrong.com as it won't let me put it in this post for some reason.)
 

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