Becoming a company Director while on KITAP

[Imagem]

Hi all.

After finally getting my unlimited KITAP 7 months and 7 days after I lodged my application, I was going to give it a year before putting in an application to change nationality. Only because I hoped to take a little trip to KL at the end of the year and I probably would not have my passport back by then. However.... now I have been offered a directorship of a new company being formed but it will be a working position. I would be my friend's representative here in Indonesia. Before I agree I said I had to look into the implications on my visa and future change of nationality. He said they would do whatever they need to get me KITAS /IMTA etc but if I go from unlimited spouse KITAP to work KITAS can I still apply for nationality? A friend in this forum thinks I can be a director with my KITAP but my understanding is that I can not be "employed" I will receive a monthly salary so how can I make this opportunity possible. Many thanks

 

[kroshka]

I believe a person can have a spouse sponsored KITAP, while you have to get your IMTA through the company.

 

[Imagem]

Thank you kroshka. Does anyone else have anything to say on it either confirming or otherwise? Or do you think I should go to immigration and ask them? Would I get the right answer?

 

[centurion]

The company can provide you IMTA and you can keep your spouse KITAP (or KITAS). No need to change your KITAP to KITAS.

Imigrasi and Depnaker are aware of this and it is an accepted procedure. The agents are usually not aware of this and they will say that this is not possible.

Procedurally, the company will just finish your IMTA and they will not do the KITAS step and that is it. That will be even cheaper for the company-sponsor.

When the extension of IMTA happens (if your IMTA is not inter-provincial) the company will extend the RPTKA in Depnaker in the province where the company - sponsor is, and the IMTA will be issued in Depnaker Jakarta (extensions for IMTAs are in Depnaker Jakarta for KITAP holders).

 

[Bad_azz]

As discussed in a different thread- the TA part of the IMTA does not technically apply to you as you are in Indonesia on a visa that is sponsored by your spouse.
So in that instance it negates the TA part. You are not an economic migrant coming here for work.

So if we need to delve deeply into that - technically you are probably nearer to being an Indonesia jobseeker than an imigrant job seeker- HOWEVER, as has been documented- the powers that be will still process an IMTA for someone on a spouse sponsored ITAS/ITAP

& that is where the conflict of opinions lays its weary head .... I guess it is up to you & your future employer to decide to either go wiith the flow & process an IMTA. or or not.

The other consideration is the role you will play/job title, I believe that as a company director there aren't any criteria for the "must have this /must have that qualification" ergo it should be an easier process for the IMTA for a director.
I know I read up about it somewhere, but I cannot recall where & what the specifics are, just remember what stuck as "important to know" in my head.
Apologies, as currently, I am up to my eyeballs in work & I have very little free time to explore this further.

BUT DO think LONG & HARD before you ditch your ITAP, cos for your personal situation the alternatives weaken your position considerably.

 

[Bad_azz]

The other thing to consider, & someone else would need to chip in on this- if you have an IMTA, you are limited to what it states your role as. So it might screw up your other roles in your life. I am unsure if it would impact on what you do besides this potential job.

 

[Imagem]

Still confused. I would feel safer having an IMTA so there was no risk of being deported for being "employed" But from Centurion's post it sounds like I do not have to give up my KITAP just have the company get me an IMTA. But Bad Azz you say I should think hard before giving up my ITAP. Sorry if I am not grasping this very well. Lots of other stuff going on in my head too.

And on to Bad Azz's other point will me having an IMTA for being a company director mean that I will not be able to carry out the other work I currently do in support of my family, helping out in our family business?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Imagem]

What about Bad Azz's comment that I am not TA so in which case I do not need an IMTA?

 

[Bad_azz]

ITAP is your visa, KITAP is the actual card your visa is on- but to all intents & purposes they are the same thing. Didn't mean to confuse you.

 

[Imagem]

Ok I finally get the difference between KITAP and ITAP (Kartu)

But what I meant is Centurion said I can get an IMTA while on spouse KITAP, so why do I have to think about giving that up?

 

[Bad_azz]

I was replying to your posts , not commenting on Centurion's post.

 

[Imagem]

I know but info from you Centurion and Kroshka is still conflicting which worries me

 

[Imagem]

A supplementary question on this. Approximately how long does it take for an IMTA to be processed and as it is Manpower not Immigration, do they keep your passport? The reason I ask is if I am able to stay on my KITAP I want to apply for nationality ASAP. Thanks.

 

[Bad_azz]

Can't you just apply for nationality before you start work, would be a whole lot easier.

 

[Imagem]

I could but I am assuming that

1) an application for nationality will not allow me to be employed, any more than an application for KITAS allows others to be employed before issued.

2) That if the Company is getting me an IMTA that they will need my passport to do so, so cant be in immigration. But this is one of my questions, as not sure as IMTA comes from Manpower not immigration.

 

[centurion]

Long story short, Immigration and Depnaker consider as legally acceptable IMTA+spouse (K)ITAS/(K)ITAP.
These statements are from my personal case (I was a director on spouse KITAS&KITAP) and cases of others that I personally know (recent cases). My IMTA was one of the first issued to a case like mine and extended over time and Depnaker was aware of my status at the time.

They do not accept working on a formal position on spouse KITAS/KITAP (or KITAS/KITAP for ex Indonesians, the same rule applies)without a work permit and people were deported (I heard about one case and I don`t know the person).

If you cannot wait for citizenship, you should get employed with IMTA and apply for citizenship. If you have all documents(for this you will need 1-2 months) you will get citizenship in 7-10 days after your application for it.

Considering the TKA (Tenaga Kerja Asing) and Immigration law I have to say(so judge by yourself):

The laws in Indonesia are never clear cut-black and white: It says TKA is a person with visa with the intention to work-so if I came with sosbud or VITAS spouse visa and I suddenly I convert to KITAS and get intention to work I fit in this category. The definition should be actually TKA is one who is not TKI or TKA is a worker of foreign origin to be clear.

The law on Immigration is Lex Specialis for Manpower Law. Lex specialis derogat legi generali, meaning that the special law (that governs on a specific matter) derogates the general norm, meaning in spouse KITAS/KITAP case Law on Immigration will govern and will give me the right to work.

By my opinion, spouse (or ex Indonesian) ITAS/ITAP holders should have same rights like Indonesians, but Depnaker does not share my opinion. They ask for IMTA in any case where the foreigner is working but if they do not issue the IMTA by some explanation they would violate my right to work from Law on Immigration.

Depnaker does not need your passport for the application, just the color scan. Application for IMTA is 3-4 weeks, depending on how inefficient Depnaker is.

 

[Imagem]

Thank you Centurion. It seems like the IMTA will not take too long to process so I think I will wait until I have that before I put in for nationality. I already have the forms for the first stage which is the SKM but Mataram immigration have told me that will take at least 9 months to process. Believable when my Kitap took over 7 months. The company is still in talks over the project so they are not going to give me a contract or get my IMTA until the project is 100% confirmed. Fingers crossed.

 

[all4ywh]

They do not accept working on a formal position on spouse KITAS/KITAP (or KITAS/KITAP for ex Indonesians, the same rule applies)without a work permit and people were deported (I heard about one case and I don`t know the person).

The law on Immigration is Lex Specialis for Manpower Law. Lex specialis derogat legi generali, meaning that the special law (that governs on a specific matter) derogates the general norm, meaning in spouse KITAS/KITAP case Law on Immigration will govern and will give me the right to work.

By my opinion, spouse (or ex Indonesian) ITAS/ITAP holders should have same rights like Indonesians, but Depnaker does not share my opinion. They ask for IMTA in any case where the foreigner is working but if they do not issue the IMTA by some explanation they would violate my right to work from Law on Immigration.

Centurion, based on your experiences & knowledge with the "right to work" issue for ITAP holders : currently what is considered "working on a formal position" ?

Additionally, this is my situation :

> Over 8 years ago while residents in Jakarta, my former wife & I established our business which still exists as of today.

> During those 8 years, the business was never registered as a CV or PT, and taxes on revenue from that business were paid in only the name of my former wife as officials at the tax office advised her that the business was recognized as an individual- owned entity.

> My primary involvement has been to oversee the operations of the business in collaboration with our office manager, an Indonesian citizen. The majority of my work is done from home (telecommuting) and only 2 - 3 times per month do I visit our office in Jakarta.

> During those 8 years while our family has resided in both the provinces of DKI Jakarta and Banten, I have never visited a Depnaker[trans] office, never have been contacted by anyone from Depnaker[trans], and never have been directed (or encouraged) by immigration officers in both DKI Jakarta or Banten that I inform a Depnaker[trans] office about my involvement in the abovementioned business.

> 12 months ago my ITAP was renewed & I was granted the lifetime ITAP.

> 9 months ago my former wife filed for divorce and 2 months ago the divorce was finalized by divorce certificate being issued by the local civil registry office ("kependudukan catatan sipil") in our city. During courting hearings for the divorce, my former wife submitted written statements to the court which stated that in april 2016 the oversight of the daily operations of "our" business had been transferred solely to me as her husband at that time, and that through our divorce she makes no claim for that business because currently our office manager of 6 years is identified as the "owner" of that business and taxes for the year 2017 already have been paid in the name of the office manager.

> Because of the divorce, currently my ITAP is in process of having sponsorship transferred to an Indonesian citizen who is a resident in the same city as me, and who has known me for more than 8 years.

 

[Davita]

> Because of the divorce, currently my ITAP is in process of having sponsorship transferred to an Indonesian citizen who is a resident in the same city as me, and who has known me for more than 8 years.

Is it possible to get ANY RI citizen to sponsor for an ITAP?
I never heard of that and pay big-bucks to get an agent to sponsor for a retirement visa.

 

[Bad_azz]

It still doesn't answer the question of being able to work outside of the ITAP conditions- unless I missed something- Imagem has a family business & works in that too. If on an ITAP with work parameters laid out, will that affect her role in the family business or not?
I think she would want to know if that part of her life was at risk of breaching a permit.