Are you an expat or an immigrant?

[OomBen]

Indonesia isn't the easiest place to adjust to. I doubt i'll ever fully adjust to this place...but I'm in a comfortable place now.

I've been considering changing my citizenship to Indonesian and that made me wonder... what's the difference between an expat and an immigrant?

Expats can temporarily live abroad, but immigrants are in it for the long haul. We never really know how long we'll live anywhere as life has it's surprises. I found myself finding peace when I started applying the term "immigrant" to myself. It is what I am after all.

But now what's curious is... right now I'm an expat and immigrant...what happens if i become Indonesian? Would I be considered as an ex-expat?

 

[Bad_azz]

I figure I'm an immigrant.

 

[dafluff]

Indonesia isn't the easiest place to adjust to. I doubt i'll ever fully adjust to this place...but I'm in a comfortable place now.

I've been considering changing my citizenship to Indonesian and that made me wonder... what's the difference between an expat and an immigrant?

Expats can temporarily live abroad, but immigrants are in it for the long haul. We never really know how long we'll live anywhere as life has it's surprises. I found myself finding peace when I started applying the term "immigrant" to myself. It is what I am after all.

But now what's curious is... right now I'm an expat and immigrant...what happens if i become Indonesian? Would I be considered as an ex-expat?

You'll be a Bule WNI!

 

[Davita]

Definition of Expat....An expatriate (often shortened to expat) is a person temporarily or permanently residing, as an immigrant, in a country other than that of their citizenship. The word comes from the Latin terms ex ("out of") and patria ("country, fatherland").

So I guess both terms are appropriate to describe most of us living temporarily, or permanently, in Indonesia.

Becoming an Indonesian citizen changes that definition to be an 'Indonesian' as, currently, they don't permit dual citizenship.

I immigrated from UK to Canada and became a Canadian but still retained UK citizenship.....so I can be a Canuck or a Brit. Sometimes I interchange what I say I am due to the company....much like I swop which team I support depending on whose winning...

 

[Smallworld]

I though all the time expat word refereed to people who are delegated to work in other countries. Seems to me they are also considered as Immigrant with a touch of "corporation". I wonder if they do consider themselves as an immigrants, economic immigrants?

I consider myself as an immigrant.

 

[Puspawarna]

Thanks for the formal definition, Davita. I guess that makes me an immigrant. Also, with nearly 17 years under my belt as a Jakarta resident, it's not unreasonable to think of myself that way.

Even so, I don't really think of myself as an "immigrant" - my sense is that an immigrant plans to stay forever, and become part of the country. As much as I love Indonesia, I do intend to return to the US. (In fact I wish I were there now so I could take part in the protests against Trump.)

 

[Davita]

Thanks for the formal definition, Davita. I guess that makes me an immigrant. Also, with nearly 17 years under my belt as a Jakarta resident, it's not unreasonable to think of myself that way.

Even so, I don't really think of myself as an "immigrant" - my sense is that an immigrant plans to stay forever, and become part of the country. As much as I love Indonesia, I do intend to return to the US. (In fact I wish I were there now so I could take part in the protests against Trump.)

The best laid schemes o' Mice an' Men,
Gang aft agley,
An' lea'e us nought but grief an' pain,
For promis'd joy!

(The best laid schemes of Mice and Men
oft go awry,
And leave us nothing but grief and pain,
For promised joy!)

Robert Burns, To a Mouse (Poem, November, 1785)

I agree...the meaning of 'immigrant' for me is someone intent on eventually becoming a citizen, which I don't intend in RI....but, as Rabbie says, we never know our destiny whatever we plan.
I retired and immigrated to Canada 27 years ago and here I am living in Bali/Jakarta and occasionally visit Canada, only in the summer time!!!

 

[BAJakarta]

I would view immigrant as someone that plans to stay in a country and make their "permanent" life there. I think all immigrants (first generation) are expats, even if they become a citizen (because, even if they give up their old passports, they are still ex ("out of") and patria ("country, fatherland").

I do not, however, think all expats are immigrants despite Davita's wikipedia definition above. Maybe it is the correct technical definition, but I think the more general view is that immigrants are those that move to a place with an intent to stay either permanently or indefinitely (e.g. PR status or citizenship) vs year to year stay permits.....

 

[atlantis]

I am an immigrant. So was my grandfather who moved to France 80+ years ago and become french, and so was his grandfather. I have moved to Indonesia as an immigrant myself and opened an Asian chapter for the family. Be careful guys, we are spreading all over the world.

 

[macvert]

I'm a bule, always will be.

 

[Minuteman]

I've been living here for over 42 years and still a Yank.

 

[sumyunggai]

A temporary resident for now.

 

[Vanhelsing]

I tend to associate affluence, or lack of it, to the terms. Expat denotes to me one of better economic standing as apposed immigrant.

I think I think this way as my parents were very poor people who relocated to another country looking for more prosperous lives, as did most of the people in our new lives. Added to that, I remember watching documentaries as I grew up where immigrants were always portrayed to be poor, usually with one case, a train ticket and nothing else but hope.

 

[Nimbus]

Expats are temporary residents while immigrants are permanent ones. By 'permanent' I mean having the right to stay indefinitely.

 

[Davita]

I tend to associate affluence, or lack of it, to the terms. Expat denotes to me one of better economic standing as apposed immigrant.

I think I think this way as my parents were very poor people who relocated to another country looking for more prosperous lives, as did most of the people in our new lives. Added to that, I remember watching documentaries as I grew up where immigrants were always portrayed to be poor, usually with one case, a train ticket and nothing else but hope.

Changing times...most Asian immigrants that come to Vancouver/Toronto head straight for the Ferrari/Lamborghini showrooms then drive to their pre-purchased penthouses.

 

[fastpitch17]

I am who I am. Accept me, fine. Don't accept me, fine. Just stay the hell away from me. Title, don't care.

 

[waarmstrong]

I am an expat in that when I think of home, the vision is in my country of origin. Could change, I suppose, but probably not.

 

[atlantis]

I am an expat in that when I think of home, the vision is in my country of origin. Could change, I suppose, but probably not.

I think that it is a good definition of the difference in between an immigrant and an expat.

 

[ukcouple]

... what's the difference between an expat and an immigrant?

Here's the difference...

If you are an Indonesian and you move to Europe or the USA you are an Immigrant.

If you are an American or European and you move to Indonesia you are an Expat.

You may consider yourself an immigrant but as far as the locals are concerned you will always be Mister or Misses Bule.

I am coming to the realization that we "expats" will never be accepted as Indonesian no matter how hard we try.

In the same way, if you somehow managed to get a Chinese passport and lived there for 100 years you would still NEVER be accepted as Chinese. Same with Indonesia.

 

[BAJakarta]

I am coming to the realization that we "expats" will never be accepted as Indonesian no matter how hard we try.

In the same way, if you somehow managed to get a Chinese passport and lived there for 100 years you would still NEVER be accepted as Chinese. Same with Indonesia.

Of course not - Indonesia, like German, or Dutch , or Spanish, or whatever - is ethnic. This is very different than whether you are an immigrant or not. Only a very few nations, with really diverse second, third, fourth etc generations of immigrants from other countries really qualify to be "locals" - where there is either not an overriding local culture (e.g. America) or there is enough penetration of other cultures (e.g. UK with many, South American countries with Spanish/Portuguese, maybe France with some African immigrants etc). I don't see it much in Asia except maybe British in HK. I also don't understand the fascination with whether anyone (as a foreigner immigrating here) would be considered "Indonesian" at least in the first generation - of course someone not native to Indonesia will not be accepted as "Indonesian". And even second generation, if not at least looking Asian they will also not be "assumed" to be Indonesian but if fluent in Bahasa etc, proof born here, citizenship etc then can make the case and probably convince everyone - if they don't still hold their parents native country passport - but it is not like "Indonesia" is a country of immigrants from elsewhere like the US.