A sign of the times?

[lifelongexpat]

I first heard about this late last night and was shocked. Some guy barged into a prayer meeting (which apprently had been sanctioned) with a hacksaw and axe making a huge commotion even when there were quite a few young children present.

The video towards the bottom shows what happend. I'm afraid it's in Bahasa. Maybe it will make it into the English speaking media on Monday...

https://www.suarasosmed.com/2017/09/tertangkap-ini-dia-pelaku-pembubaran.html?m=1

 

[atlantis]

There is an unwritten bottom rule:

1. If a christian meeting is disturbed, it is solved with a musiawarah at best. Excuses or simple ignorance are accepted form of solving the case.
2. If a muslim meeting is disturbed it is solved with a blasphemy court case at the minimum. Mob lynching is a possible form of solving the case.

I note on the surat in picture in your link that the victim's family name was Palandeng, which happen to be a Minahasan name. Therefore I conclude they were Christian and that the case has been solved as per point 1. Am I correct?

 

[atlantis]

I think that when you have spent years in Indonesia you are not shocked anymore by such behavior. You know it happens and you know it isn't rare.

This is terrible but I have to admit one thing: what has shocked me is not that the Christian meeting has been interrupted, what has shocked me is not that the guy has obviously threatened and insulted the worshipers, what has shocked me is not the fact that kids have been witnesses of such behavior and scared by that nutcase. I am unfortunately desensitized with this kind of news you would come across many times in a year in some parts of the archipelago.

What has shocked me is that printed and online news media have published the surat pernyataan without blanking the name and telephone number of the victims, allowing/encouraging more religious bigots to harass them in the future.

 

[rabbit_39]

I note on the surat in picture in your link that the victim's family name was Palandeng, which happen to be a Minahasan name. Therefore I conclude they were Christian and that the case has been solved as per point 1. Am I correct?

Bang on. Issue done as far as the police goes. Every day I experience/see/hear things that always make me question "why am I still here again"? Oh yeah, to try a business that's tougher to start in other countries. It's sad that I don't think about staying in Indonesia beyond the success of a business model I'm trying. I feel that I'm really here just to get my chunk of the booty.

 

[Daniel50]

The children are crying, what an idiot. Well at least the police spoke to him (oh brother).

 

[Euc-]

What has shocked me is that printed and online news media have published the surat pernyataan without blanking the name and telephone number of the victims, allowing/encouraging more religious bigots to harass them in the future.

Funny that you said that, Coconuts is claiming that the exact opposite happened and the perpetrator was beaten up by four tall guys who weren't residents of the building.

"
Joker and the worshippers reportedly came to a peaceful settlement after police came in to mediate between the two parties, with the former promising not to repeat his actions. However, Joker became the victim of a violent attack the next day, which is thought to have been in retaliation for his shutting down of the religious service."

https://coconuts.co/jakarta/news/ja...topped-carrying-saw-axe-gets-beaten-next-day/

 

[atlantis]

Funny that you said that, Coconuts is claiming that the exact opposite happened and the perpetrator was beaten up by four tall guys who weren't residents of the building.

I don't think it's the exact opposite. In fact, it works both ways since Joker's full name and phone number is also visible allowing an easy identification. What shocked me is that online and printed medias, instead of trying to cool down the matter, just encourage revenge by publicly giving away personal datas of those involved. Mob justice has no religious boundaries and both sides have their lot of zealots and nutcases.

The last part of your link is telling:
"Residents at the complex now say they now fear further religious conflict as Joker is known as a popular de facto Islamic authority in their neighborhood."
If the datas of those involved wouldn't have so widely shared, perhaps escalation may have been avoided.

What is interesting now is to see how the police will treat the case of the four guys having beaten up Bang Joker. Do you think that it will end up with a simple surat pernyataan?

 

[Nimbus]

Sadly, this is all too common, even two decades ago. The only difference is the speed of news.

 

[Daniel50]

Most people living in the building including Pak RT seemed to know there was a meeting taking place and were okay with it. The Joker was the religious idiot. The Joker was saying 'Ahok Ahok Ahok' he seemed to hate Ahok. Ahok has a lot of supporters including Muslim people. The people beating him up could also be Muslim but it can stir up some more "hardliners".


I remember going to someones house, in Bekasi, after they moved there. There was a group of people gathered and across the street I could see a guy dressed in white on the roof. It looked like he was trying to see what was going on. The problem is not most Muslim people it is the more radical ones and unfortunately there are enough of them to create problems for some people.

Of course there is also different applications of the law. Burn down some Buddhist temples nothing really happens. Ask someone to turn down mosque speaker chance of having something burned down or being beaten. Police may not do much but try to bring harmony through blaming the woman for complaining of loudspeaker.

I saw a pic of the guy who was beaten up and he did not look very beaten up. He had a bit of swelling on one eye. It doesn't look like he was beaten up by 4 guys. Unless he is a world champion defender or something. So I wonder if he is trying to stir things up. Of course I don't know.

 

[Euc-]

I don't think it's the exact opposite. In fact, it works both ways since Joker's full name and phone number is also visible allowing an easy identification. What shocked me is that online and printed medias, instead of trying to cool down the matter, just encourage revenge by publicly giving away personal datas of those involved. Mob justice has no religious boundaries and both sides have their lot of zealots and nutcases.

The last part of your link is telling:
"Residents at the complex now say they now fear further religious conflict as Joker is known as a popular de facto Islamic authority in their neighborhood."
If the datas of those involved wouldn't have so widely shared, perhaps escalation may have been avoided.

What is interesting now is to see how the police will treat the case of the four guys having beaten up Bang Joker. Do you think that it will end up with a simple surat pernyataan?

What I meant with exact opposite is that your concern was for the original victims, where surprisingly (well to me at least), it was the perpetrator who was attacked.

Usually, in these kind of situations the “minorities” don’t stir the pot even more to prevent bigger incidents or more retaliation from happening.

 

[mauricio]

Sadly, this is all too common, even two decades ago. The only difference is the speed of news.

How about three decades ago? I don't think "this is all too common" then. Admit it or not, people are getting radicalized at an alarming rate.

 

[Nimbus]

How about three decades ago? I don't think "this is all too common" then. Admit it or not, people are getting radicalized at an alarming rate.

How about five decades ago when Darul Islam / Tentara Islam Indonesia was conducting an armed rebellion against the state?

 

[mauricio]

“This is not a Taliban state and as the head of Islam in Johor, I find this action to be totally unacceptable as this is extremist in nature,” said the Sultan.

“If he still insists on carrying on the Muslim-only practice, he can leave Johor. I suggest he set up shop in Afghanistan. His thinking is sick and goes against everything that Johor stands for.”

I like what the Sultan of Johor said, the full story here... http://www.todayonline.com/world/as...es-religious-tensions-muar-and-malaysia-large